The lost Element

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:16 PM
One of my personally favorite elements was the Cutback on Drachen Fire, DF is the only coaster to have this specific inversion. the cutback is basically two exact halves of a corkscrew placed together. The inversion offered some really sweet hangtime and was pretty comfortable.  I was wondering if anyone has a clue why we haven't seen the cutback element used on other coaster since it was also land efficient and more exciting than most  helices or banked turns?  Whoever designed DF (Arrow and maybe B&M;) we may never know) should have used it in more recent coaster and capitalized on a unique element.
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:17 PM
We have seen it again. Millennium Force has three of them.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:18 PM
the only other coaster that you could say have it are the Mr. Freezes, and The Chiller: Batman. 
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Montu, God Of Coasters

Raging Bull, Don't Fight It, Ride It

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:21 PM
i wouldnt say MF does a cutback, those are more like over banked turns. the cut back inverted if i remeber correctly. it was a great element, it was smooth and had some good hangtime and positive g's to it.
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:24 PM
Considering you haven't ridden it, how do you know MF's turns aren't smooth, have good hangtime, and positive g's?

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Joshua Wilcox
"We have awakened a sleeping giant and have instilled in him a terrible resolve"
- Japanese Admiral Yamamoto after sneak attack on Pearl Harbor

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:28 PM
I have ridden MF and DF, and overbanked(they are great) turns are not a cutback.
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Montu, God Of Coasters

Raging Bull, Don't Fight It, Ride It

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:30 PM
Well....let's just look at this..Is drachen fire still operating? lol
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:36 PM
overbanked turns are not cutbacks.
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:36 PM
No Ride It, Dave's right, just think of it this way... (I know you've all heard this before)

How is it, that Cedar Point counts Mantis' inclined loop as an inversion, but it's less inverted than Millennium Forces overbanked turns?

See, they are inverted. They're cutbacks, but they just don't classify them as that. :)

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"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:39 PM
I'll have to agree with intamin2k
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:40 PM
havent they been classified as overbanked turns?? and not cutbacks?

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NITRO!

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:45 PM
IMO, it all depends on how you classify it.  CP says that MF's turns are just that, turns.  sure, you may be inverted, but the element itself isn't an inversion.  also, it may not by CP who designates the inversion status of an element.  Mantis and MF were made by two different companies.  Intamin, to my knowledge, hasn't made an inclined loop.  perhaps they don't consider B&M's inclined loop to be an inversion, but B&M sure as hell do.
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Jay and Silent Bob have left the building ~Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:47 PM
the arrow cutback inverted. the MF turns dont, they are just overbanked. how does that make them cutbacks? DF's cut back literally cutback. MF's are just turns.

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NITRO!

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:53 PM

Ride It said:
havent they been classified as overbanked turns?? and not cutbacks?
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NITRO!

Yes, that's why in my prior post, I said "They're cutbacks, but they just don't classify them as that."
I know they're not cutbacks, I was just showing how Dave was right in saying that.
Just like Coasterjedi said, it's all about how you classify it. Millennium Force itself is called a giga coaster, but technically, isn't it also a hypercoaster? It's over 200 feet, isn't it?
See, it's a never ending arguement, where both sides are right, unlike the Magnum color arguement... ;)

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"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:56 PM
Here is a pic of the cutback on that page. I remember like a MF overbank it did not go totally inverted (meaning 180 degrees).
If you look at the picture, the lower rail is significantly lower than the higher rail. I'd say it goes about 150. Since the picture was taken from the ground, if it did go180 the rail in the back would actualy be higher than the rail in the foreground.
  As for classification. A boomerang and a Cobra Roll are almost the same thing
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 10/10/2001. ***

*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 10/10/2001. ***

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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:07 PM
cool page!
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:43 PM
I would have to say th MF's overbanked turns are not cutbacks at all, even though they are pretty insane. The cutback actually inverts but that was already stated. the over banked turns do not give the same sensation as a cutback, there is no hang time on the over banked turns. The top hat inversion on Premier coasters is kind of similar to the cutback only that it is elongated and streched out.
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 8:01 PM
Actually if you ride MF when its running slow you do get that hangtime in the overbank. I think the cutback on DF came right after a hard midcourse brake.
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Save Cheese on a stick!
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 8:10 PM
The cutback came after the corkscrew on DF. So the cutback was the second element after the mid course brake. MF over banked turns are at 122 degrees while DF cutback was mentioned to be 150 degrees, not  significantly larger but those 28 degrees make the cutback a unique inversion. MF turns are amazing, too but provide more lateral G's since the turn are taken at incredible speeds. It is the details that seem to add up to create the masterpieces.
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Wednesday, October 10, 2001 8:17 PM
Yeah I agree. I actually want them to install a trim before the final overbank on MF so you can get that hangtime :)
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Save Cheese on a stick!
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