the bat at PKI

What makes you think it wasn't an oversight? You can't justify the decisions that were made when the year it was built was such a learning process. You guys have to remember that back then pushing the limits was a risk they would all take. Common sense comes from learning from your mistakes.

Thanks for the resources. I know I found the clip about a year ago, but I couldn't find it again.

Remember, most engineering back then was done with models using trial and error. No fancy schmancy CAD programs unless you worked for a fortune 500 company, or the goverment.

Isca is right on. The Beast was built without any help of computers or CAD, just math. The Bat followed just two years after the Beast made its debut. I'm sure the reason at the time that there wasn't any banking of the track was that the swinging motion would bank the riders in the train on their own. Which is exactly what they did.

Through trial and error they found that there is more of a reason to bank the track. You'll see on all future suspendeds that the trains hardly swing compared to the banking of the track above it.

This is the first time I ever saw video of the Bat in action and I have to say I'm floored how fast that thing went through the course and how much swinging action there was!

~Rob Willi *** Edited 7/24/2006 8:23:44 PM UTC by HeyIsntThatRob?***

I understand building a suspended coaster was a learning experience but it seems to me that putting the brakes on the actual chassis to which everything is bolted would be plain old common sense. If you happened to be rolling down a hill, you'd want someone to grab you by your feet, not by your head.

My God, they built the prototype and watched it flop around and still built it that way?

I agree. But several things (chiefly the brakes) seem less like an oversight and more like sloppy engineering.

Call me a jerk or wrong, but I think most of the coasters Arrow built from after Morgan and Bacon left (the Toomer years) were really crappy engineering. Before you say it...I don't buy for one second that it was becaose those were the days before CAD. My proof: Schwartzkopf. He engineered/built flowing curves, parabolas, smoooth transitions, and varying size loops/elements. He had even been doing it before Arrow had.

Again, call me a jerk or wrong, but a lot of the Arrow multi-loopers also seemed liky lazy engineering. The epitome of this is the three large multi-loopers. (GASM, Viper, Shockwave) After they engineered the original 40 foot vertical loop and 24 foot radius corkscrew it seemed like they were too lazy to adjust them accordingly for specific coasters. They just took the same little loops and stuck them way high up in the air, raised up the corscrews up high and slammed on brakes right before them....etc. There are many other examples too. Again...Anton could build variable size loops based on the needs of the coaster, why couldn't they? It took 25 years and new blood to finally built a proper sized loop (Tenessee Tornado).

Please someone correct me or tell me that I'm crazy :)

Edit: Spelling *** Edited 7/24/2006 10:55:31 PM UTC by Peabody***

I'm surprised that the design concept survived after flopping so badly at PKI. Prototypes are always risky. Parks seem to be learning to be more careful since we've only seen a few rocket coasters and 4th dimensions.

Well, there's been 11 rocket coasters since 2002, and only 2 4-D's. I think we're safe in saying that the rocket coaster is beyond prototype status. In fact, I'd label it a big time hit.

I think Peabody is right on, and I wonder why Schwarzkopf didn't out-sell Arrow in the U.S. It had to have been an issue of cost, and if that's the case, well, you get what you pay for.

I think it's safe to say that Toomer just got lucky with Magnum.

Wow! Great find, Gonch! The cheesey music fits perfectly with that video. ;)

Thanks for the pics, Thrillerman! Those bring back memories!

I rode The Bat during my first PKI visit in 1982. I was 10. I remember thinking The Bat was cool-looking but I don't remember much else about it. It obviously didn't leave an awesome first impression on me like the Beast and Racer did at the time.

-Tina

Steve Okimoto should get credit for Magnum...I've heard he did much of the work on it.

Still....Magnum isn't without it's flaws...who that thought it didn't need upstop wheels? That's NUTS! And one of it's most critisized by some and beloved by others, the bunny hops, are rather sloppy engineering. Why build upside down letter "v"s and not something that more resembles a parabola? Anton could do it 15 years prior, why couldn't they?

But, John's correct...they got REALLY lucky with Magnum...too bad their other hypers were flops (the Big One in particular).

For reasons mentioned in my lenghty first page post, I'm surprised more Arrows haven't joined the big steel pile in the sky. It's a shame that so many Anton's have.

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martino said:
Does anyone remember the bat? OF course! What happened to why they closed it down in the 80's? I never had the chance to ride it but always heard horror stories about it.Was there an accident with this ride? What exactly did the Bat do or supposed to do? Thanks!

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great aerial view for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230011329591

I never knew that the bat had 2 lifts.

^I think it was a racer/dueler crazy horse (which I didn't know either).

I think.

EDIT - OOps. Now that I look at the ebay pic I realize it's not a dueler. Just has 2 lift hills. :P *** Edited 7/25/2006 2:09:01 AM UTC by MrX***

Yeah, you can see both lifts pretty clearly in the extremepki.com photos linked on page 1 (thanks for those by the way). You can still see some of the footers from The Bat under the Vortex lift hill (I believe). You can also tell the station was reused by looking at the transfer track that goes beneath the station. It has tall swinging saloon-like doors that would accomodate the large tubs. You can see them here: http://www.extremepki.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=54&pos=75

EDIT: Actually, this would be a great time to visit pkicentral's new history section which has more pictures of The Bat than you'll find anywhere: http://www.pkicentral.com/parkinfo/history/photos/ *** Edited 7/25/2006 5:58:29 AM UTC by Pagoda Gift Shop***

Come on...someone argue with me on my long post from the first page! :)

From what I understand Schwarzkopf was an obsessed perfectionist who often went of over budget and over schedule. I agree that his rides are fantastic but I can understand why parks would hesitate from buying.

And wasn't it the '80s that the entire "Buy America" craze was going on?

This topic comes up every 6 months or so. I rode this thing multiple times...and frankly it was a bore. I do not recall it being very fast at all. In fact, I remeber it as a sluggish ride that struggled through the turns with a delay effect similar to the transition on the downswing of an Eagle ride. Sadly The Bat never gave the cool "oomph" on the upswing that you get on any decent Eagle ride. There was one cool section (S-curve) after the 2nd lift, but otherwise it was not much of a ride in my opinion. Vortex was an upgrade...and more importantly...Top Gun is MUCH better!

At that time I liked Beast, Racer, and Screamin Demon better. My older brother and father (quasi-enthusiasts) also remember The Bat in poor light.

But everybody has an opinion...