Stealth/SOB incidents

I must be extra smart...I saved money and skipped the second Matix, too ;)

mOOSH - highly recommends "Lost In Translation"

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The only 2004 Wood Coaster Calendar still available, plus holiday & all-occasion cards. All at S&D Greetings.

*** This post was edited by Mamoosh 11/6/2003 12:20:38 AM ***

OK, now that we are speaking trig, my walnut brain can comprehend :) Is this the reason why Gerstlauers shuffle also?

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Lyrically, I'm supposed to represent
I'm not only a client, I'm the playa president!

Didn't Dinn build SOB? That probobly explaines it.

jwhoogs said:
Didn't Dinn build SOB?

Nope.

Mechanically, looking at only the frame and axles, the PTC, Gerstlauer, and Son of Beast trains are pretty much identical. Gerstlauer used a simpler frame than PTC because the construction technique was different. Son of Beast has bigger wheels. But in all three cases, there are fixed front wheel carriers, and rear wheel carriers mounted on an axle that can 'roll'. That allows the car to go into a banked curve without twisting. In all three cases, the car can't steer around a flat curve...the road wheels have to slide. In fact, the only current wood coaster trains that can steer around curves are the GCII "Millennium Flyer" cars and the CCI/Gravity Group cars on LoCoSuMo. Oh, and the older, flanged-wheel PTC junior cars.

I don't think Gerstlauer trains are any better or worse than PTC trains in terms of how well they track (it's not fair to point to Raging Wolf Bobs for an example of how Gerstlauer trains track, because the track on the first half of that ride hasn't been replaced yet after being destroyed by PTC's trailered train, which was a mechanical nightmare). But generally speaking, the Gerstlauer trains have less cushioning than a typical PTC train, so any mistracking is going to be more noticeable in the Gerstlauer. And the Gerstlauer may bounce around a little more because it isn't as heavy as the PTC.

jwhoogs, Dinn had nothing to do with Son of Beast. In fact, I don't know for certain who can be given most of the blame for building Son of Beast. Apparently it was designed by Werner Stengel and his engineering firm, trains designed and built by Premier Rides, coaster construction by the Roller Coaster Corporation of America (dba Roller Coaster Corporation of Ohio), with Kings Island Design and Construction as the general contractor. I probably screwed something up in that description, but the result was that when something went wrong there was a lot of finger-pointing. Ultimately, it's Kings Island's ride, though, and they're the ones who have to fix whatever is wrong with it, regardless of whose fault it is.

--Dave Althoff, Jr

The principle that Dave points to for shuffling is the same principle that makes 1-3 the ejector seat on most 3 benchers.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

You guys say that there is alot of shuffling between the track. Don't the side friction wheels touch each side of the track at all times? And from Rideman's description, doesn't it, at least on steel coasters, matter for a smoother ride if the SF wheels ride on the outside instead of the inside, to reduce hunting? I forgot which site I read that on, but it said one reason atop of several that B&M is soo smooth is because of outside friction wheels.

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I am one.
I am Turbo.
Top Thrill in the front row... anything else is lame
X...Whoa

Well Turbo, I aint no rolling stock expert, but as far as I know woodies do have slop in between the side friction rails and the rails. Same with Vekoma and Arrow coasters. I remember while traveling on the lift on Kong and looking at the wheels. There had to be atleast an inch between the wheels.....which would explain the horrific ride I was about to experience.

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Lyrically, I'm supposed to represent
I'm not only a client, I'm the playa president!

Hey, check out the time on that last post.

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A day is a drop of water in the ocean of eternity. A week is seven drops.

Am I the only one who thinks Beast is smooth and SoB is very rough?

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Love,
The Mole

Yes Mole, you are!

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Lyrically, I'm supposed to represent
I'm not only a client, I'm the playa president!

I think the Beast is smooth and SoB is rough.

The Beast is rough laterally, like a wooden coaster should be. SoB is rough in a bumpy, painful way.

Sorry if this has been discussed... didn't read the thread. ;)

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A day is a drop of water in the ocean of eternity. A week is seven drops.

My back hurt after riding The Beast, while my ribs and abdomen hurt after riding SOB. Edge: The Beast. Although right about now, I'm just thoroughly grateful SOB didn't break my neck.

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"Did I say 'corpse hatch?' I meant 'innocence tube.'"
- Montgomery Burns

Well then the problem with SOB probably lies in the lack of padding on the inside walls of the train as well as no padding on the vertical portion of the lap bar.

PTC's may not track better(let alone work) on SOB's layout but at least the lap bars are fully covered so you don't hit your legs on anything hard.

I guess we now have a new terminology to use,you know how we always refer to the vekoma's & Arrow's as headbangers? I guess we can now refer to the premiere trains aas leg or thigh bangers...boy that hurts.

Turbo said:

... doesn't it, at least on steel coasters, matter for a smoother ride if the SF wheels ride on the outside instead of the inside, to reduce hunting?

Nope. Why should it? As you mentioned, at least one of the major reasons Arrows and Vekomas are so rough is because there's so much space between the guide wheel and the rail. Now, it may seem like this can be fixed by putting the whele on the outside... but just think about it for a second. Is there any particular reason why a company can't design a wheel to hang an inch outside the rail? The answer is, no. The ride will end up feeling the same as if it was an inch away on the inside. Just because the smooth coasters tend to be on the outside and the rough ones on the inside doesn't mean it has to be that way. Just look at Iron Wolf!

So Rideman , could SOB run GCI Millenium Flyer trains? And , could it run articulated trains period?

And , if it ran the GCI's would it be hella smoother?

(who would also like to say that SOB didn't have ANY "bouncing" the day he went)

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Gotta(heavy breath) get myself(breath)funnier for(breath) offseason.(breath)So unfunny(breath) must.....try....harder.Also , I must be the only SOB luver on this site.

Draco said:
SOB sounds like it must be above and beyond your typical roughness to cause such a severe injury, especially to an "avid roller coaster rider".

My first rides on Sonny, I would say "WAY beyond your typical roughness".....way, way, WAY beyond. The more recent rides were considerably better, but still make every other woodie look like butter by comparison....

bill, no Sonny in '03, but I'll rectify that in '04....one of these days they'll have it "just right"...by then, Paramount will have spent a "king's (Island) ransom" though...;)

thepinkdoomofmonkeys said:
So Rideman , could SOB run GCI Millenium Flyer trains? And , could it run articulated trains period?
And , if it ran the GCI's would it be hella smoother?
(who would also like to say that SOB didn't have ANY "bouncing" the day he went)
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Gotta(heavy breath) get myself(breath)funnier for(breath) offseason.(breath)So unfunny(breath) must.....try....harder.Also , I must be the only SOB luver on this site.

I don't think SoB could run any current train model. I seem to recall them saying at the time of the announcement that the track guage was wider than normal, as that was part of the custom design of the train. So, they are stuck with that train unless someone builds them another custom one.

Jacob

Which is why I wrote the second question.....

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Gotta(heavy breath) get myself(breath)funnier for(breath) offseason.(breath)So unfunny(breath) must.....try....harder.

All they gotta do is simply adjust the guage as needed to fit the train.

Sure it would require that the entire ride be re-tracked & would be a hell of an expensive fix but at least it might solve some of the problems as far as roughness is concerned.