Six Flags Wooden Coasters

Wow. Taking Dave Althoff head on in an engineering and maintanence topic.

<sits back and gets popcorn>

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ApolloAndy said:
Wow. Taking Dave Althoff head on in an engineering and maintanence topic.

<sits back and gets popcorn>

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Actually, with his blunt comments, it appears he is taking me on. Not only have I been employed in the amusement industry off and on since I was a teenager, but I also participate in the Golden Ticket Awards each year. My complete library of amusement park and roller coaster collectables includes chaindogs, road wheels, damaged guide wheels(from GASM), and a PTC car. I also have an Arrow Development Company, INC. car(Model # 3967, serial #C48550-15). I think I have a pretty good idea about how these rides work. Maybe he needs to check the roller coaster car collection in his back yard for wear and tear, but he certainly does NOT need to make me sound like a liar.

^^Did GASM use skid brakes at the time? they aren't the most efficient way to brake a fully loaded train especially on a hot or rainy day.

SFA's wild one used to operate with skid brakes up until 99 when the park was rebranded & prior to the fin brake installation they never ran two trains,why is that? simple because the skid brakes weren't effective enough to slow the trains down & sometimes the train actually overshot the station by a few feet as a result.

Even with the fin brakes if the track is hot like it was one time last season the train can still overshoot the brakes by a few feet,this happened to me while I was actually on the ride & instead of coming to a full stop in the shed the lead car<which I was in> actually stopped adjacent to the transfer track instead.

Yes, the ride was using skid brakes at the time. When the problem first started, after the ride's initial break-in period that summer, the first thing maintenance did was check and adjust the trim brakes. This still did not correct the problem. I do believe that there was some heavier packing grease used on the bearings. This still did not help. Other than installing trim brakes all over the ride, which would have been very expensive, they opted to stop greasing the ride. By the end of this one summer, this beautifully smooth ride had been reduced to a rough, squealing pile of rubble.

Okay, I will give you a little grace for not knowing who Dave is. I will also ignore the fact that you are trying to pull rank because that's really juvenile and doesn't add any merit to your point. I could tell you where I went to college, but it wouldn't make me know any more about coasters.

However, before you go on the defensive (and/or offensive) go back and read Dave's post with an open mind. For the most part he's agreeing with you.

When he said "Worst" he didn't mean "worst = you're lying." He meant "worst = shame." He said "It's a shame that your story was the case because GASM should've been able to handle the higher speed, but couldn't because it was so out of shape."

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ApolloAndy said:
Okay, I will give you a little grace for not knowing who Dave is. I will also ignore the fact that you are trying to pull rank because that's really juvenile and doesn't add any merit to your point. I could tell you where I went to college, but it wouldn't make me know any more about coasters.

However, before you go on the defensive (and/or offensive) go back and read Dave's post with an open mind. For the most part he's agreeing with you.

When he said "Worst" he didn't mean "worst = you're lying." He meant "worst = shame." He said "It's a shame that your story was the case because GASM should've been able to handle the higher speed, but couldn't because it was so out of shape."

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Tell me more about this juvenile thing. I think it is juvenile to tell me "I'll give you a little grace for not knowing who Dave is". Knowing Dave does not change what happened to that ride in 1983.

My whole reason for this post was to prove a point of how one Six Flags park handled an unusual situation on the GASM. At the time, the ride had 3 sets of brakes. The first brake was on the 45 degree turn. The second brake was in the long stretch of brake shed which, in the middle, had red and white lines painted on one of the bents indicating the area in which the train MUST stop. If the train slid past this marking, with the first and second brakes both up, then it was considered unsafe to run more than one train. These tests were set up for situations such as rain, extreme humidity, etc. The occasions which I have been referring to apply to situations where ALL 3 brakes, INCLUDING THE STATION BRAKES were up. On more than one occasion during the 1983 season, the GASM had two trains ON THE CHAINLIFT at the same time because the trains sometimes would not stop in the station. After extensive investigation from maintenance, they found the brakes to be in perfect working condition.

And, by the way, I will give you a little grace for not knowing who I am. *** Edited 4/16/2006 9:15:53 PM UTC by coasterkitty*** *** Edited 4/16/2006 10:36:07 PM UTC by coasterkitty***

You still haven't addressed the fact that Dave agreed with you and you tried to tear him a new one...

Nor have you addressed the fact that buying souveniers and collecting trinkets, riding lots of rides and voting in a poll doesn't give you any more authority, knowledge, or wisdom into the engineering, design, or operation of roller coasters than Paul Reuben who boasts 800 coasters (last I heard anyway).

Are you right about the brakes...probably. I was 4 years old at the time. As you say, I wasn't there. Does your track record have anything to with your correctness? No. *** Edited 4/16/2006 9:49:34 PM UTC by ApolloAndy***

Thanks, Andy! I think you've sussed it.

(edit: Andy from two posts ago. He posted that last one while I was writing this one!)

Wow, I go off for a day of Easter weekend happenings, and I get into trouble. How does that happen, anyway?

coasterkitty, you're taking this waaaay too personally, and taking it in the entirely wrong way. You've never, at any time in this thread, given me any reason to doubt a single word you've said. Let me point out that you didn't say a word about GASM overshooting until after I replied; you indicated it was going faster, but not that it was *that much* faster!

Some parks have a 'track record' (if you will) of wanting to make their rides as slow as they can get them, even to the point of running well below the design speeds. I can't imagine that Arrow ever intended for riders on their big multiloopers to fall out of their seats going through the corkscrews, and yet that's exactly what happens on a couple of those because the parks are slowing the ride down too much. Another thing that happens (in fact this JUST happened at Geauga Lake) is that a ride that has been neglected..well, for argument's sake, since 1988 :) ...that coaster is losing a lot of energy bouncing around on a track that has been worn out for years. If that's the conditions under which the baseline was established, then replacing the worn out track with new track is going to speed up the ride, probably bringing it back to its design speed. I don't know what happened to GASM! My thought is that it sounds like the turns got tracked wide, which would loosen the ride up. But contrary to popular opinion in this forum, I'm hardly an expert on the details of wood coaster dynamics.

Anyway, Andy's right about one thing. Given the information I had when I last posted to this thread, it sounded like SFOG had opted to substitute dry track for slowing down the wheels. From what you had said, it sounded like they had opted to take the easy solution instead of the best solution, and that seemed to be a shame. I wasn't trying to argue with you, I was trying to agree with you! :)

Oh, and I don't think I know you. But I had already decided you knew more about GASM than I do!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

*** Edited 4/16/2006 9:51:48 PM UTC by RideMan***

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Dave's original post just made me feel like I needed to back myself up with more information. *** Edited 4/16/2006 10:32:32 PM UTC by coasterkitty***

Take it easy. I think the person who was most offended in this thread was you, and that wasn't supposed to happen!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Predator is an example of a woodie in horrible condition. The first drop feels like you're falling down 10 flights of stairs, and each drop gets a little worse after that. By the final turnaround, you're begging for the train to stall just so you won't get beat up anymore. Ouch.

Sucks for the Ops. that have to ride it every morning. ^

I always thought that would be the best part of working at a Amusement Park. Guess not.

It just so happens that Predator is also the ONLY coaster in the country that I know of that still runs PTC's trailered train. Raging Wolf Bobs, Thunder Run and Hercules (and I don't know how many others) have all been switched from trailered trains to articulated trains. Oh, and Hercules has been turned into kindling. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Let me add another painful woodie to the list: Texas Giant at SFOT. The last time I rode this beauty it was more painful than ever before. This is another example of a great and thrilling coaster going downhill year after year.

It's really a shame the shape it's gotten into-for a number of years this was my fav ride on the planet.

(and the brakes at the beginning of the shed on the GASM were murder last year!-it racked my back something fierce!)

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Colin Fisher said:
Sucks for the Ops. that have to ride it every morning. ^

I always thought that would be the best part of working at a Amusement Park. Guess not.

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So that explains why the girl working on load for Roar flat out threatened to quit?

I thought Texas Giant was far from "bad shape" last October. It had its rough moments, but for the most part, it tracked really well compared to something like Timber Wolf which is still in bad shape. Although, last October was my only frame of reference for TG, so i can imagine it's not what it was when it opened, as Timber Wolf was once a top 5 ride, but now it sucks. *** Edited 4/17/2006 5:22:28 AM UTC by Acoustic Viscosity***

The old NADs use to have an 'oiler' that would drip oil onto the track that wheels behind it would spread it around.
granted, I haven't seen an oiled track since CLP had the NADS.
Euclid Beach made a big point of oiling, as did Geauga Lake until about 10 yrs ago.
I'm sure they grease the wheel bearings at least once a day in high summer. The Bearings would fry like eggs if they didn't.

I think that's a good point regarding the oil one set of cars per day.

I know MFI does this w/ the silver comet, and it seems that all the other rides that have done this ride tremendously well.

// alan j

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RideMan said:
Oh, and Hercules has been turned into kindling. :)

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Actually, I pray that this ISN'T what became of Hercules' wood. Pressure-treated lumber has some pretty nasty stuff in it, last thing you want to do is burn it... :)

Ahhh, yes. Excellent point.

Hmmm...I wonder if the copper and the arsenic and the other nasty stuff can be removed or neutralized to allow treated lumber to be ground into pulp for paper or OSB. If it can't and it just has to be landfilled, it would REALLY be a waste of lumber.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.