Six Flags to lose money for fifth straight year in 2003

Well bob, the reason that you dont see people wearing six flags shirts, is because they close the gift shops the same time the park closes.....thus leaving all the people that are left in the park without any souvinear/t shirt.

Don't some of the parks actually make you walk through the gift shop on your way out at the end of the day? I know they do this at Marine World.

The company couldn't lose by keeping the shops open longer to catch those guests on their way out... but as far as their 'rescue line' being to sell more Six Flags merchandise, the bigger picture is branding and image.

If K-mart sold T-shirts with their logo on the front, who would buy them? (Abercrombie gets advertising for free)

Better quality, better image, better brand!

Six Flags should get rid of the bad, make the good better and next year call itself:
"Six Flags Ultra"

yeah, i hate how every six flags park I go to they close the shops early... it happened at SFWoA and SFNE for me in past years.... and if you say "why not buy stuff earlier?" well I don't exactly wanna be carrying around my stuff. Seems silly to me... i just wont spend my money, that's all.... and LOL at Six Flags Ultra.... :-P*** This post was edited by SFDL_Dude 8/26/2003 3:58:08 PM ***

Six Flags was hurt further by the sluggish economy, weak consumer confidence and lousy spring weather in the Midwest and East.

I guess there has been a weak economy, poor consumer confidence, and lousy weather for the last 5 years. Apparently this weak economy and bad weather has avoided Holiday World and Knoebels. I'm confused! :-)

If anyone is even remotely thinking about touching this stock-------------------DON'T! Buy some Enron or a Christian church in Iraq. These would be much safer investments. Six Flags is a dying breed. At this point in time, I bet they wished they would have never renamed all their smaller parks with the Six Flags logo. They actually thought that this would be a benefit. They truly are a clueless company.

------------------
Give me wood! :-)
328 and counting!

I agsree 100% with Bob O. The atmosphere at SF parks, quite frankly is creepy. I have been to seven SF parks this year and they all have a terrible atmosphere.

SF needs to attract more families and be less the extreme park they claim to be. They aren't known as a family park. The crowds tend to be teenagers and early 20 somethings. Families are going to HP, KI, BGW, etc. they aren't going to SF parks and quite frankly kids don't spend much.

I didn't feel secure at SFGA with kids cutting line, smoking in line, and swearing all over the place.
Whereas, BGW, HP and CP all seem to be on a different more calm level.

But none of this is anything new to SF.

Next year should be pretty interesting for SF.

The weather truly was terrible in Maryland. What was it? Two days without rain in two months? Most people don't want to go to a themepark when it's raining, except for us enthusiasts fools. Coasterguts, look around for a similar rumor posted about the Rotoshake at Knott's. Let's just say you may not have to worry about Iron Eagle being closed anymore in the future.
------------------
If you have a problem with clones, the solution is real simple—Stop traveling.

I wholeheartdly agree with the fact of costumer service, quality and good food. SF does horrible in those qualities. When will SF learn it's not all about the rides. Sure, rides are the heart of the park but are not everything.

Why does Lake Compounce, Kenobles and millions(or so it seems) small parks have good atmosphere? The only big park that can compare with good ratings in those essential qualites is Cedar Point which i know felt a decrese in attendence and capitol only because of the abominable weather.

SF has good rides, i will give them that but they see the guest as walking money.

That's the bottom line

What IS their total debt? I don't have access to that information. Can anyone shed some light?

------------------
CCI Coasters!! The best rollercoasters WORLDWIDE!! **only applies in the state of Indiana**

I don't know about the weather, but I have to think that anyone in the Midwest or east would agree it hasn't been great this year.

Good points about the shops. That's pretty wild. I don't if you've been to Busch Gardens Williamsburg or Islands of Adventure, but the most chaotic shops I've ever been in are at those parks in the hour before closing and quite frankly for the next 30+ minutes after closing. Why would you throw all that away? To save $100 in payroll? Pretty silly to me.

------------------
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Save $100 in payroll and lose about 4,000 in earnings, sounds like smart business to me.
SFMM usually has their shops open for about half an hour after the official park closing time. That and Suzette's Bakery has a line of like an hour for some last minute funnel cake.
Also, not all Six Flags food is bad. Who's eaten at Mooseburger, that's some grade A moose there man, not to mention Wally in the middle of the restaurant.

------------------
Leaving your worries and your wallet at your favorite park: priceless.

I seen shops open at SFGAM after the park closes. In fact, they have to be open for SUF or you will not be able to exit the ride. The Stores that close when the park closes are the ones in the back of the park. The ones in the front are still open after the park closes.

I think the chain will rebound; it is just a matter of time. It takes time to turn around a failing chain. One think I know about any Big Company is that when they make changes it takes 2 or 3 years before the changes start reflecting there income.

Carlo

Carlo....2 to 3 years for changes?

5 years of losses so far....plus 2-3 years before rebound....

Hmmmmmm. . .

Should we wait for the 8 year mark to see if they can swim out of it or go ahead and play with the idea of 'Six Gardens' and 'Cedar Flags' ?

I have an idea! Six Flags should sell a park, say, SFGAm, and then ship off each of one roller coaster or a selection of flat rides to all of their other parks. These parks would receive a "brand new" ride to increase attendance, at the cost of a few million dollars instead of tens of millions. It's cheaper, and has the same effect as a brand new coaster. I can see it now...SFGAdv receives Batman, SFOG receives S:UF, SFWoA receives V2, SFMM receives Deja Vu. Six Flags can now be building a "clone of a clone" at four of their major parks :) . I like the idea.

------------------
For original NoLimits creations go to My NoLimits Webpage

BWFSFA: Dont fool yourself, SFA *does* compete with SFGAdv. I know *plenty* of people in the DC area who still consider SFGAdv to be the *real* Six Flags in the area. SFA has made great strides, yes, but it hasnt completly shrugged off the "Adventure World" shoud in the minds of many. One or two more "spectacular" rides (not necessarily coasters) would go a long way to combat that.

BTW: I *really* dont think that Hershey's new coaster is going to damage SFA too much, even without a new SFA addition. Drop Zone didnt do too much to SFA this year (weather took care of that :)) and, for whatever reason, Hershey does not advertise too much in Northern Virgina/DC. Almost all the Hershey commercials I've seen since moving here have been on the B-more stations. The biggest cable systems in NoVA (Cox) and DC (Comcast) dont carry a lot of B-more stations (Comcast only has B-more's Comcast Sports net). I honestly do not believe that that many people will even hear about the ride.

IMO, SFA is only in *real* trouble if BOTH Hershey and PKD make additions while they stand pat. Otherwise, they will do okay.

lata, jeremy

------------------
My current favorite home video game!

As far as the GP goes, I don't know if they know about hitting interval or how a separate load cycle for fast pass inhibits capacity, but they know single train operation and they definitely know a slow moving line when they see one.

From listening around in queues (and common sense), people lining up for a ride are much happier when the line is moving fast, even if the line time is a little longer. But put them in a half hour line that barely ever moves and you'll never hear the end...

In terms of improving six flags parks in general, many of them are in desperate need of some "filling out." Be if flats, a real kids area, better shows, I can't think of an SF park that really has something for everyone the way BGW or IoA does.

------------------
Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

We just returned from a big 'West Coaster' tour. We visited Six Flags, Disney and Paramount among others. I can tell you flat out without hesitation that Disney is getting most of our money next time we return. The staff at Six Flags and Paramount were bungling, disinterested, even (in one case) rude. The staff at Disney on the other hand were fast and curteous and seemed to actually enjoy what they were doing. Even if the smiles and quarky comments aren't entirely genuine they sure makes you feel a whole lot better. And as they say 'happy customers are paying customers', right? Of course being coaster enthusiasts we thuroughly enjoyed all of the other parks and would still visit them on a return trip but probably not for more than a day.

------------------
Kevin Stone
NoLimits Roller Coaster Simulator
http://www.nolimitscoaster.de

i work for a smaller family owned park in amarillo tx. i am on the maint staff so i dont get to visit many parks during the season but i try. one thing i have noticed about sf parks that i have atteneded...is that many of the rides are in poor shape. if u look past the themeing somethings arent that nice. i visited sf frontier city in ok last summer and yes sf has really trasformed that park. alot of the rides were in poor shape and in need of a simple paint job. not to mention there were 6 rides closed for the day. several ride ops had their backs turned while rides were running. some were down right hateful. i found this interesting since the corporate office for the whole chain is right next door. alot of the rides had damaged and broken lighting and looked like something right out of a parkinglot carnival. and i am not exagerating. if one of my rides goes down...i dont get to go home utill its up and running. unless i am waiting for parts. i think people notice these things and that might be one factor in the overal problem that sixflags has. no park is perfect. its hard to keep everything in top shape. but some things i have seen in the sf parks look as if they are just being ignored. it doesnt cost a whole lot to paint every now and then. the chain hired our former insurance inspector offered him a salary of 1 million per year. im sorry...what can one person do that is worth that much money. seems like they have alot of waistful spending and its the parks that suffer from it. sfot is one that is in good shape. or seems to be. not all are bad. our attendance has been down due to the economy as well. but....we are putting in a major ride next year because we have too.

mixter2568

www.wonderlandpark.com

2Hostyl I don't know about you but I've seen more than my fair share of advertising for HP in the northern VA area & that's with comcast as our local area cable provider.

So if HP advertises the crap out of their new coaster then yes it very well may have a negative impact on SFA for the 04 season,I know that ran alot of commercials for Rollersoaker last year when it debutted.

Why in the world would SFGRADV even compete with SFA when they are both a part of the same company? but then again that may explain why they get all the big rides & we've gotten nothing but average stuff in recent years (2001-2003).