Six Flags "re-visioning"- will it ever happen?
2hostyl If SF had 4 parks themed as well as disney parks i would be happy but of the SF parks ive been to they have little to no theming, and the little theming is more of a afterthought than a cohesive plan to theme a entire park.
What i was trying to say is that SF puts no real effort into theming their parks!!! The trash strewn about is as much of a theming as anything else they do! They just throw rides/attractions where ever they want with little thought if it belongs in that particular section of the park to match what little theming they attempt.
2Hostyl: I tried not to compare park chains, but it was inevitable. The reason why I brought up the BGW-BGT comparrison was to point out the point made about parks being in different parts of the country not needing to be themed differently.
Fact of the matter is this. From my LIMITED experience with SF, all I can say is that, as already mentioned by someone else, I found the first sections of the park to have theming (the older sections of the park), but the Gotham City area to be nothing more than thinly themed coasters, sparse (and closed) flat rides, and a few "themed" buildings... the rest was open grass land ("Six Flags over the Tundra?").
If you want to have a Theme park... then Theme it. If you don't want to take the time or expense to theme it, then don't bother... but at least LANDSCAPE it. And don't give the argument of saying "That section of the park is relatively new." I will use two PA examples... Hershey and Dorney. When they put in new attractions, while they are not themed, they are at least landscaped and look nice... not like they are out in the middle of Farmer Brown's field.
SLFAKE: I cannot comment on Dorney, never been there, but from all accounts it like "a little Cedar Point". I think I've said enough right there. As for Hershey, well let's compare the "new" Gotham City in SFA with the "new" Midway America in Hershey. Are they really that different? Both SROS and Jokers Jinx have themed station houses just like Lightning Racer and Wildcat. Whether you *prefer* the more classic looking theme to the comic characters is irrelavent, but they are both *themed* to their respective areas. Wild Mouse has a rather unassuming station as does Batwing, again a draw. Then there are the flat rides. Both parks simply use paint schemes to portray the theme they are tying to express; no difference. Now, along the walking paths, I'd actually venture to say that SFA has better landscaping: more flowers, colorful benches, the actual path material itself, shade umbrellas. Hershey doesnt really have a lot of that in the Midway America Section. Neither section has any real trees, though I'll give them both time on this one.
No, what is really comes down to is *not* that the walking areas of SFA are neglected, but rather that the "future expansion" park of the park is undeveloped. Remember, the part of the park over by S:ROS/Batwing/Jokers Jinx/Typhoon SeaCoaster *IS* a meadow, so yes, the coasters were plunked down into a field. I suppose they could have planted some trees around to "Shield" the view of the field from visitors, but if that land is earmarked for future expansion, does is really make sense to make such a "Great Wall of Trees" when it will need to be uprooted soon? Seems like a waste of money to me. The actual landscape is very well taken care of. The grass is fresh (despite near-drought conditions almost the entire last 3 years), neatly mowed, flowers blooming and neatly arranged. No, I think the gardening staff does an admirable job.
At Hershey, on the other hand, there isnt nearly as much land to work on. The reason Midway America doesnt seem like it's in the middle of BFE is because HP is "landlocked" so to speak. Most of the space in Midway America is filled with rides and queue lines abutting each other. The one place where they have space over there (in front of the laser light screen between Lighting Racer and Wild Mouse) looks every bit as sparse as Gotham City. Every other inch is home to a ride, queue, or food/trinket/game booth. With the way Hershey is laid out, you are always walking in the "valley" between rides, never seeing what is beyond them. You would be right in saying that is not the case at SFA and for *that* reason, SFA looks more barren.
BTW: All the flats @ SFA were open this past weekend. Go and enjoy them!
jeremy
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Besides, if we were really shutting down people we disagreed with, would Jeremy (2Hostyl) still be around? :) I think not. - Jeff 1/24/02
Just one question then as to Planning for the Future:
If that is the case, why does SFA seem to just plunk down rides where they see fit? If there is so much Planning for the Future, why obscure (even bury) the classic looking lines of Wild One with the ugly structure of (the oft closed) Typhoon Sea Coaster? And please, no arguments about "adding an extra elment" of having the coaster trains pass under that structure. If you want to do that, build a tunnel or underpass or something. It appears to be more of a case of "let's see what we can fit here."
As for the station houses of S:RoS and Joker's Jinx comparing to Lightning Racer and Wildcat... I wouldn't know about S:RoS because it was CLOSED when I was there (of course, Six Flags and major rides closed are one in the same)... but let's look at Joker's Jinx. Sheet metal and some flashy paint and a picture of the Joker on the front. Okay.. so it is supposed to be Urban style theming. It still appears to be cheap... at least when compared to other more complete looking structures... say the very elaborate and "classic" looking stations of, oh, I don't know... Lightning Racer and Wildcat? But enough of that. I suppose the leaky roof of Joker's Jinx and the 2 inches of water on the station floor was also theming? And was that more theming I saw in the wood's behind Mind Eraser (which, surprise surprise, broke down in the middle of the day)... all the litter (it was literally red-white-and-blue with Pepsi cups). I suppose the paper, cups, icecream cones, etc in the queue of Two Face was also theming.
Sorry, I digress... this is about SF Theming, not their cleanliness (or lack there of) or their policy of having at least 1 (usually more) major rides down for maintenance (or lack there of)... those are arguments for other threads.
Back to topic... looking baren for future development. All well and good... but wouldn't it make more sense to work on one area, get it looking good, and then move on to the next... not simply say "Let's place a ride here and see what grows up around it in a few years?"
I also think we are sort of comparing Apples and Oranges here. Mentioned somewhere above, in certain parks, theming is an afterthought. Take Dorney and Hershey... if anyone would remember them from years back (Hershey in the late 60's/early 70's... Dorney up until the lat 70's/early 80's) you would remember two totally different parks. They were traditional amusement parks that grew into what they are today. What theming that is there, is minimal at best (but that is not to say that they look bad... again, they are well cared for and well designed). Then you have places like IOA and Disney... built from the ground up as Theme parks. Others, like BGT and BGW started off much more modestly than what they are today... though they were also started from the ground up with a "Theme" in mind. Then you have the SF mentality... take an already existing park, add some new rides (and use the same names of other rides at other SF parks), throw them down anywhere you like, do some minimal "theming" to the stations, and call your self a theme park (when in fact it looks more like an over grown carnival than a amusement or theme park) (all the while saving money by not buying that many trash cans).
*** This post was edited by SLFAKE on 4/19/2002. ***
They difference between the Lightning Racer Station and the S:ROS station basically amount to personal taste. Where HersheyPark has used shaped wood to make their station, SFA used Sheet Metal to make theirs. The only real difference I see is the use of the "drag strip" lights and the sirens announcing the winners. Of course these would be extraordinarily inappropriate on S:ROS. Plus, I think the big*****Superman sign emblazoned on the walk up to the ride makes up for that.
As for the drainage problem on the JJ platform. That piss poor workmanship and a ****ty way to run a park. Inexcusable yes, but that isnt really the *themeing* of the station.
As to working on one area before moving on to the next, what do you think they have been doing? You, yourself acclaim the so-called "older" areas of the park. So they *have* worked on the older areas and are now moving on to a new section. Again, perhaps they could have done this whole section at once instead of piecemeal like they are doing, but as the saying goes, slow and steady. I would kill to see a picture of Midway America before Lightning Racer showed up. What was in that area, grass or trees? My guess is grass, in which case it would look like a field as well.
And even though Cedar Point (and 'baby point' Dorney) have a trash can every ten paces, I'm not convinced that that alone is the solution to cleanliness. I have seen people @ parks litter even though a trash can was less than two steps away. Then again, you can go to a Disney Park where I dont think you'll be assaulted by an armada of garbage cans, but their parks are spottless because trash isnt allowed to sit. SFA is not junky because of a lack of trash cans, it's that people do not use them (very rarely will you see an overflowing trash can). Now, I will say that SFA is to blame for this. I've found that if people dont see litter, in general, they wont litter. But if they see trash, they will add to it. I dont understand that, but the theory seems to be valid in practice. That is a problem SFA needs to work on. But even though you keep bringing it up, that is *still* not germane to the *themeing* aspect.
But HersheyPark *is* a themed park. In fact, it's as *minimally* themed as SFA. They have indistugusiable themes (explain to *me* what Comet Hollow really is). They have attractions out of place (what's a Dolphin shown doing in MineTown). Oh sure, they'll theme a ride or two (conestoga), but they'll also just 'slap' on an 'overused' name on a ride (sidewinder, cyclops) and leave it be. Funny, the best themed area in HersheyPark actually isnt even *in* HersheyPark but rather the "Tudor Square" area right outside the main gates. After that, not too much "great" theming to be found.
And if you really wish to continue with the idea that it is SF *policy* to keep rides closed, then I dont think I will further this conversation.
jeremy
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Besides, if we were really shutting down people we disagreed with, would Jeremy (2Hostyl) still be around? :) I think not. - Jeff 1/24/02
I live for 2hostyl's *rants*, but I'm nowhere near the typist of my esteemed friend, so I'll make it short: When the folks in OKC decide they need to hire the one man with enough business-sense, vision, financial knowledge, and enthusiasm to do the job RIGHT, they know my e-mail....
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Any resemblance between this post and humor is purely coincidental. No robots were harmed in the filming of this episode...The sarcasm filter default has been left ON for your enjoyment.
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Bob M.
With regards to SFA. This park hase lived 4 lives in it's relatively short life. First it was a wildlife park. Remember Jim Fowler from Wild Kingdom? Then it was a water park. Then rides became at least some of the attraction. Finally it received the Six Flags conversion. It's kind of like being a foster child that gets sent off to new parents every few years. SFA though is hardly the only park that has a less than ideal layout dictated more by it's history than by the design of a park planner.
I'll agree that SROS's station is not the equal of Lightning Racer's station; but then, I don't think that I've seen another station outside of Orlando that is the equal of Lightning Racer's beautiful station.
The weakness of SF's themeing chain wide is not the themeing that they have chosen or it's repetition. After all, most people never see more than one SF park. The problem is a lack of depth and thoroughness in the themeing. Batman Knight Flight at SFWOA is an excellent example. The entrance and the exterior of the station are very nicely themed. But, once you step into the station it's just another shiny new metal building. For very little extra money the themeing could have been continued inside the station.
Chewman: Some parks have carried out regional themeing very well, such as Dollywood. But do you know anyone who would want to go to a park themed to the pine barrens of central New Jersey or the suburbs of Chicago.
--My season may have been cut short last year, but now I am back.
-Dan from the SF:WoA original possie
Back to the original subject. Revisioning of companies most often occurs when top management changes. It occurs occasionally as a result of rational thought to correct problems. More often it occurs as a result of the egos of new management wanting to put their stamp on the company for better or worse.
We will most likely see a revisioning of Six Flags when the current top management retires or otherwise leaves. Then the new management will feel compelled to revision the compant.
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Any resemblance between this post and humor is purely coincidental. No robots were harmed in the filming of this episode...The sarcasm filter default has been left ON for your enjoyment.
duelingdragonsrok11 said:
Six flags 3rd biggest chain? I thought they were the biggest.
Alfa Smarts is the largest in the states when you include their theme parks, water park, Kart parks, and recreational complexes across the country. Then there is a large chain that spreads thru Japan, China, Taiwan, and Oceania that has very many parks and carnivals in operation(don't know how to translate the name in English though), and then you have the beautiful Six Flags in third place.
Let me just say that Hostyl keeps me soooo entertained on bored days like today. :)
I'd also like to say that SF would never hire any old person to work at the park. If you think about it...now-a-days people are S:UE (excuse the pun) crazy and SF can't afford to put people who are not qualified running their attractions.
Also if they didn't care whether the guests were happy or mad is totally ignorant to the fact that the park wants people to return...they care about their satisfaction. If they didn't do you think they'd spend $100million on a new park and several other million on the coasters they added?!
& for people that bash SFWoA...name another park that was designed for small crowds turning into a major theme park and becoming one of the largest parks in the world in under 3 years. It's not going to be perfect in a day and don't expect it to be, if you don't like a park...don't go.
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"Villain-Once You Drop, The Fun Don't Stop!"~My No Limits Designs...http://coastergames.net/author.php?author=BKF%20Master
Incidentalist said:
Thanks for that. I have only been to one of the original parks (SF over Mid-America). They haven't really changed their old theming as much as they've disregarded it with their placement of new rides (Mr. Freeze). But the Gotham area is so small and it never really had any theming, so it doesn't bother me much at that particular park.
SFOT hasn't changed it's theme much. Most of the Gotham City theming is in the area that the park expanded into which was not part of the park for years. Although the themes are slipping, they are still there. Most of the food has changed, a lot of names are floating from their section's theme too (log ride changed to Ozarka Splash *puke*) but for the most part, the sections are fairly well defined (except Mexico which is about 100 ft).
By the way, SFOG has different flags and sections than OT (anyone know what they are?). I'm not sure about SFOMA.
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Jes
Jes's Roller Coasters DJ Jes MCS
"Thank You Jeff Putz"
Chewman said:
I think an ideal park would theme to its location. That way you really feel like you are in that part of the country (or world) and there is a certain uniqueness. The locals would know that this is their park, for them. For example, I don't go to SF Hurricane Harbor NJ to see nice tropical theming. I'd prefer to see palm trees at Disney World, where they belong. Then if you visit a distant park, you really feel like you are visiting that place else rather than "another version" of you own park. Theming could then easily spin off of local history and way of life...much like Jazzland in New Orleans does. The overused "Old West" theme would be great, if I was visiting Texas.-----------------
http://www.gadv.com
That's a nice thought if you are a true tourist destination, but most parks get the majority of their business from locals. I think one of the appeals of theme parks is their ability to make you feel like you are somewhere else. I think most people in the midwest would prefer to "get away from it all" and would prefer something like a Wild West theme instead of a theme that just reminds them of home (where they will return immediately after exiting the park).
Now the biggest argument against local theming is DCA, which has been criticized to no end about it's theming. The whole park is themed to a California Experience, but even though LA can be considered a tourist destination, the locals make up a substantial part of the attendance, and they were not excited about the theming. Much of the criticism can be traced to botched execution by Disney carrying out the theme (not enough rides, aimed at the wrong age group, etc.), but a lot of the criticism I've seen just doesn't think there are enough ideas to support this type of local theming, even for just a portion of the park, much less the whole thing.
Somehow SFA always seems to pop up in these arguments, and somehow they always get unfairly compared to other parks. Why would you compare SFA to BGW at all, or any other non-Six Flags park for that matter. What it really comes down to is time. SFA has only been an official "big" park since 1999, and i think the Six Flags company has done a damn good job of expanding it. Busch Gardens has been around since the 70's if I'm not mistaken, and over time the park has become great, because it's been over time; all the trees have been able to grow, the park has since long ago found the best possible way to run the park smoothly. SFA is still getting used to park operation techniques, and I find it ridiculous that people bash it so often. Think about rookies in baseball; they could have a tremendous minor league career, then once they get to the majors have a few rough first years because they're not used to the (for a lack of a better word) "bigness" of the big leagues. It's like wine; stuff gets better over time ;). Be patient, and in the next few years SFA will progressively become a better park, it will not happen overnight, nor did it happen overnight for Busch Gardens or any other big park.
Frank
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"On the East Coast we ride until we die!"
-Good Charlotte, East Coast Anthem
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