Six Flags Magic Mountain will be open 365 days a year
99er said:
I'm not sure I believe staffing is the problem for the parks in LA when it comes to the Halloween events. The reason you won't see the parks add more hard ticket event days in the week is because that equals less days for those guests who do not want to attend.
the Cal parks already close at 6 or 7 on those dates. Having Universal close at 5 during the week for HHN is a non-event. The Japanese tour buses clear out at 4 anyway. Your premise may hold true in Orlando but not in Cal.
Lord Gonchar said:Or ever, really.
According to the last financial report, the percap was $41.67 - that number is all inclusive (gate, in-park, etc.). If you look at the report only $23.36 of that is the gate.
My issue with that statistic is how do they count Season Pass admissions. If the rationale for year round ops is "tourists", then one could reasonably expect that they are anticipating a marginal gate revenue number higher than $23.36. Yes, the season pass folks will come in, perhaps more than the tourists, but the math has to be predicated on getting some higher number from "tourists'. It won't be $89 gate price, but it would have to be more than $23.36. So the real question is X number of tourists at Y average gate and Z in-park (non-gate) spending. If that park were closer in to LA, I'd have more confidence in this plan. It's just "far enough" out there that it's a tougher proposition.
Gate falls straight to the bottom line, other in-park spending has a cost to it (burger product cost, labor to make said burger, etc). While the margins are astronomical, it's not 100%.
Schwarzkopf76 said:
I remember that, but thought it was late 2000s? Either way, I think Cedar Fair could really do wonders with Magic Mountain.
Officially Magic Mountain was on the blocks in 2006, along with the Denver, Buffalo, Seattle small parks, and the two odd water parks (Concord CA and what was left of the Astroworld complex). Unofficially it was available prior to that.
All of those sold except Magic Mountain. Again, no one will buy MM for use as a park. It will continue to limp along, doing what it does, until the next big property bubble (the current one will end shortly, so the window has passed for any sale in this cycle).
Cedar Fair already has one park in the market, and while the thought of plowing down all those trees must make someone in Sandusky salivate, it's not in the cards to grab MM. You can't buy that property for what the ground is worth now and make a return on your investment operating as an amusement park. Synergy argument is out the window, as you're unlikely to be able to take out meaningful costs that haven't already been stripped out by Six Flags. Adding MM to your portfolio would be almost a non-event for the two Bush Parks (although if you still believe that all the SEA/Busch parks remain together, there might be some value in a MM/Sea San Diego alliance, but again, almost negligible to the portfolio as a whole).
bigboy said:
Gate has a labor cost too.
Once you've already made the decision to be open, in the abstract yes, but it's marginal revenue/profit that we are discussing. It's almost immaterial in this equation, with the exception of the open or not open decision. Assuming that you are open at all, then there is almost zero cost on a per cap basis for the 2-5 people actually operating the gate, and the 6 people running the magnetometers. Real dollar cost yes, but immaterial on the whole if you've already made the decision to be open midweek.
CreditWh0re said:
My issue with that statistic is how do they count Season Pass admissions.
Cost of pass divded by number of admissions...I think.
That latest report mentions that "ticket price gains were more than offset by a higher mix of season pass holder attendance."
Ticket prices went up but the per cap on the gate went down because of more passholder visits.
If the rationale for year round ops is "tourists", then one could reasonably expect that they are anticipating a marginal gate revenue number higher than $23.36.
I don't think they'd expect to move per caps by adding operating days. I think it's pretty straightforward. They plan on adding attendance by adding operating days. I don't think the additional days do much to move per caps.
Captain Hawkeye said:
You could be right, but the big expense in running a park is the FIXED expense. Employees not so much
Have to chime in here- wages are the single biggest expense for an amusement park by a wide margin.
My one visit to Magic Mountain was a random Sunday in January 2014 that wasn't attached to New Years or MLK weekend. The park was open, I believe, 10:30-6. I hit the jackpot, every single coaster was open and running multiple trains, minus Batman: The Ride, which had a sign out front explaining they were only running one train due to seasonal maintenance. The longest I waited for anything was probably 30 minutes for Tatsu and X2 and 15 or so minutes for Batman since they only had one train going. Everything else was a walk on. It was a perfect day and I got so much riding in. I know that this is truly unheard of in terms of typical operations for Magic Mountain, but I had a wonderful day. We are looking at doing another CA trip this winter, and weekday operation in January/February will likely get me back for a second visit I wouldn't have been able to make schedule wise. I'm sure I am the type of visitor they hope to target with this new schedule; not a season pass holder, will have to pay for parking, food, etc... I just can't imagine there are enough of us to make it worthwhile. I'd give the world for another day like I had back in 2014, but I'll settle for low crowds and *most* coasters open.
CreditWh0re said:
Schwarzkopf76 said:
I remember that, but thought it was late 2000s? Either way, I think Cedar Fair could really do wonders with Magic Mountain.
All of those sold except Magic Mountain. Again, no one will buy MM for use as a park. It will continue to limp along, doing what it does, until the next big property bubble (the current one will end shortly, so the window has passed for any sale in this cycle).
Cedar Fair already has one park in the market, and while the thought of plowing down all those trees must make someone in Sandusky salivate, it's not in the cards to grab MM. You can't buy that property for what the ground is worth now and make a return on your investment operating as an amusement park.
I see your point(s), but strange things do happen. Wasn't California's Great America ready to call it quits a few years ago? I wouldn't be surprised if that property is worth more than the land Magic Mountain sits on. Cedar Fair has seriously turned that property around and has planned a very bright future. We just never know. I could totally see Magic Mountain (run by Cedar Fair) become one of the best parks in the country, complete with on-side hotels, etc.
CGA and the San Francisco 49er's were having a turf battle over parking lots (the park is adjacent to the team's stadium), which was eventually settled. The property itself didn't need to be turned around.
Also Six Flags is no longer bankrupt and shedding parks and is under a stable management team. Regardless of what enthusiasts say, they keep reporting high guest satisfaction and the company is doing really well. Even when it rains during the summer now.
Hanging n' Banging said:
I would think that if the park could operate year round and still be profitable, someone would have figured out a way to made it happen by now.
Maybe SFGAdv is waiting to see how this works out before they decide to build a hotel.
Oh, don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows that GAdv pulls from the NY Metro area and nobody wants to stay overnight.
No, and it seems to me that if they needed a hotel,... well, I... I don't know what I'm trying to say. Something.
Just as an interesting exercise, is anyone familiar enough with park operations to quantify how much staff SFMM might require on a 'one train operation' day? By my count they have about 17 'spectaculars' (major coasters and the like) and 25 minor rides. Even on weekends offseason they pare down restaurant and gift shop operations to just a few primary outlets. Maybe a total of 8 restaurants and shops if that.
They've posted the hours for the new year now, most of the offseason is showing 10:30-6:00, so many departments will be able to be staffed with single 9 hour shifts.
I think I'll take a Wednesday morning off sometime in January to do some on the ground research.
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