Six Flags Locker Revenue

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Intamin Fan said:
Here's my whole problem with the 'not-a-rumor, they really want to install lockers at every ride policy' (according to SFMM's GM). They have games in all areas that they want people to play.

So you win a prize at one of these games. And now you're being penalized for winning the prize? This is what it says to me; "Gee, thanks for putting lots of money down to win the prize, now pay up to rent a locker because your prize annoys us by its presence." Is that anyway to treat your customers?

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Not sure about your local park, but Magic Mountain offers a free service in which you can leave souvenirs (like basketballs, souvenir purchases, or large plush animals) with certain in-park store locations.

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Come on, it takes most people all of thirty-seconds to put stuff in a bin, or on the side of the loading platform. Stop making the customer out to be the enemy, and make your employees do their jobs efficiently and we wouldn't be having this argument.

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Thirty seconds is still thirty seconds too long. It all adds up over the day. Within one hour, ten minutes is lost just to guests dumping their things in the station before getting in the car plus the time spent waiting for riders to clear the station because they form a crowd trying to grab their personal items in bins or on the floor.

Operations can be at its best, but allowing guests to leave things in the loading area DOES slow things down and also opens a can of other problems the park has to deal with including but not limited to: safety issues, guests having their items stolen or misplaced, etc...

I'll be honest. I'm just as annoyed as anybody else by this policy, but you know what? I can set aside my emotions and actually see how this policy is for the benefit of EVERYBODY, including the park. There is no need for anybody to bring their things in line or into an area where theft could possibly occur, and becomes an additional factor in slowing down the load/unload process.

SFMM Park President Jay Thomas noted that with a small fee for Ride Locker use, it reduces the chance if some idiot punk decides to rent out all the ride lockers as a prank.

*** Edited 5/23/2008 12:10:27 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***

On a ride like Magnum 30 seconds is the difference between a clean dispatch and the ride setting up. *** Edited 5/23/2008 12:22:01 AM UTC by MagnumsRevenge***

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mulfdog said:
The policy was not enforced at SFStl. Shoes were piled up on the loading platform of Batman.

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That's because with this locker policy, shoes are allowed to be taken off for inverted coasters because they might fall off. Other big articles for this policy like souvenir botttles, game prizes, bags, and so on are not allowed to be put in bins.

I don't by the fact that it takes an extra 30 seconds for them to check the trains. People put the stuff in the bins fast, and the ops check them. However, the workers I do see as problems. Some of them are just really slow, while others are really fast. That could make or break the times it takes to send out trains.

Batman the Ride with lockers was 1:15 whereas if you go on Judge Roy Scream without lockers, it was 57 seconds. For V2, it is a long train, but the workers were just slow as molasses. They were taking it easy, and the time was like 1:35. With a faster crew, you can send that train within 1:05.

Also, there is time that has nothing to do with the workers at all. When it's ready to launch, it takes time. I don't know who locks the harnesses on V2, but I think it does it after a certain time. I'm not sure. The harnesses aren't locked, but people on the train are ready to be checked, but there is waiting for no reason at all.

On Judge Roy Scream, they don't have to check the lapbars each at the same time. When you have 2 employees per row, at Six Flags Great America, they wait for the other employee to be done with the row. They don't just keep on going like at Judge Roy Scream, they will keep on going, and it's a smarter solution.

Did I mention that Judge Roy Scream with lockers had a total 2 people working the ride for a less than minute dispatch?? A worker on that ride even has to move the locker sliding door. Demon with bins was also getting less than a minute dispatch.

Six Flags, the corporation needs to do more research on why things take so slow. It's the height checks, it's the workers taking it slower, it's the people that are too big for the ride, it's the ride itself, and so on.

It's the workers on the phone (Six Flags phone) talking when you are going to send Billy to come take over for me. It's the exit people that slow the line down. Pick your row, and let's wait how many seconds for the other people to go on. It's the turnstyle time. We need to check the turnstyle's put numbers down on our clipboard. It's pukings on Batman. It's all over the station, and we don't know how to clean up puke.

It was the person with a bloody nose on Deja Vu. It was let's do the stupid thing of let's the check the seatbelts first on Deja Vu, and than let's check the harnesses. That was stupid, but American Eagle, and Viper, they check them at the same time.

So, loose articles costing 30 seconds. That could be let's pretend that it's the loose articles fault. See what the workers are doing that makes these rides load slow, or not. With the loose articles thing, people dump the loose articles in the bins, and walk fastly to their seats because they are afraid that people are going to take them.

I even think that they speed up putting there harness down, and seatbelt because they think they are taking time, and they don't want to waste time. They want to go already.

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Spinout said:
I don't by the fact that it takes an extra 30 seconds for them to check the trains. People put the stuff in the bins fast, and the ops check them. However, the workers I do see as problems. Some of them are just really slow, while others are really fast. That could make or break the times it takes to send out trains.

Also, there is time that has nothing to do with the workers at all. When it's ready to launch, it takes time. I don't know who locks the harnesses on V2, but I think it does it after a certain time. I'm not sure. The harnesses aren't locked, but people on the train are ready to be checked, but there is waiting for no reason at all.

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It doesn't matter how slow the workers are. They can't even begin checking until everyone gets seated. Obviously, the speed/effieciency of the ops is a big deal, but those ops can't even begin their job until the guests are seated.

Putting stuff in bins adds to the time a normal dispatch takes regardless of how much needs to be considered as part of the process and how long it takes - that's undebatable.

The amount of time it adds is debatable.

But even if it's just something like 10 seconds extra per train (and it probably easily is - watch and count sometime) that could add as much as 10 minutes (give or take) to each hour of wait time depending on the coaster. (I'll spare the math for now)

And that adds up quickly as well. Losing 10 minutes of time every hour in a 12 hour operating day means 2 lost hours of capacity.

That really could be the difference between stupid-long lines and long moving lines.

It probably takes about 6 seconds for the person closing the queue lines to walk to the front of the train. The people for the bins have an extra 6 seconds to put there stuff in.

For Superman Ultimate Flight, Batman the Ride, and maybe Raging Bull people take their shoes off for the ride anyway. So, what's the difference going to the bins, or taking your shoes off?

The following has been attributed to Einstein, though I don't know if he did actually say it:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

I am constantly amazed at how unprepared and unable people are to put stuff down and get in a train.

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Spinout said:
For Superman Ultimate Flight, Batman the Ride, and maybe Raging Bull people take their shoes off for the ride anyway. So, what's the difference going to the bins, or taking your shoes off?

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In those cases there is no difference, but what has happened is SF put themselves in a catch-22.

They can't tell guests not to wear shoes in the queue. In fact, they'd want to tell guests quite the opposite.

However, that same required footwear (especially the summertime variety - sandals, flip-flops, etc) potentially becomes loose-object projectiles on certain coasters (inverteds, flyers), so it makes sense for guests to be removing them before riding.

Two seperate policies that could be argued generally make sense on their own, but on certain rides might be contradicting each other. I suspect it's a matter of consitency that put them in such a position on certain coasters. They have to consistently enforce the rules otherwise people have grounds to not follow them - even if the rules seem to contradict each other...though they really don't.

1. Locker Policy - no loose items in the station
2. Shoe Policy - no loose items on the ride

It's a weird situation.

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*** Edited 5/23/2008 4:07:41 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

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ApolloAndy said: I am constantly amazed at how unprepared and unable people are to put stuff down and get in a train.

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That's because once it becomes time to get in the train, the long line doesn't matter to the rider any longer.

It's like the elderly woman in the grocery store who would be the first to complain about standing in line, but will still slap their 50 $.10 coupons on the belt, haggle over the latest bogo offer, and request paper inside of plastic for their bags. *** Edited 5/23/2008 3:29:12 PM UTC by Carrie M.***

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Lord Gonchar said:

The amount of time it adds is debatable.

But even if it's just something like 10 seconds extra per train (and it probably easily is - watch and count sometime) that could add as much as 10 minutes (give or take) to each hour of wait time depending on the coaster. (I'll spare the math for now)

And that adds up quickly as well. Losing 10 minutes of time every hour in a 12 hour operating day means 2 lost hours of capacity.

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MAYBE

Is there, or is there not a certain *minumum* amount of time that must be waited between dispatches? If the time it takes to stow gear and check the train is less than this 'minimum interval', then there is no effect on capacity at all. ;)

Personally though, I would have tacked on an extra buck somewhere else and offered "Included Unlimited Locker rentals" ala Islands of Adventure. Though in all honestly, I have no apprehension to the policy, whether or not it's a "cash grab".
lata, jeremy

About the cargo shorts thing; I always wear them, or wear cargo pants in the spring/fall, so it's not a problem. I'll also typically have a jacket with zippered pockets in spring or fall if I'm not wearing cargo pants.

My camera is small enough that it fits into a velcro-secured pouch that my belt goes through. I've only been given crap about the carrier twice--at SFNE on Cyclone (and they let me keep it after I ensured them that it wasn't coming loose), and at Holiday World on The Voyage where I had no such luck. I don't believe I had it showing, but the checker either saw the carrier, or she felt me up:) [please, feel free to fill in your own joke].

There is some discrepancy between others idea of locker usage and mine. All I'm asking is for everyone to think outside the box in terms of family needs for personal items in the amusement park. Don't just turn to your demands, but instead look at others. Weigh the options!

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2Hostyl said:

MAYBE

Is there, or is there not a certain *minumum* amount of time that must be waited between dispatches? If the time it takes to stow gear and check the train is less than this 'minimum interval', then there is no effect on capacity at all.

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How many coasters can you think of where the station is not the bottleneck? The only ones I can think of are the mice with constantly moving cars and sometimes Phantom's Revenge.

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Spinout said:
I don't by the fact that it takes an extra 30 seconds for them to check the trains. People put the stuff in the bins fast, and the ops check them. However, the workers I do see as problems. Some of them are just really slow, while others are really fast. That could make or break the times it takes to send out trains.

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As someone else mentioned, this varies greatly. I can say from having observed many times that I have been on rides, the times that the ride is the biggest delayed (and you bake in the sun on the brake run or wait forever to start) is because someone gets off the ride, tries to give their purse or bag or whatever to the operator, who tells them they can't take it or be responsible, and then the person argues over how someone has to watch it because it has XY and Z in it, and yada yada...

Crews may be slow or fast depending on the employees, but they are at least relatively consistent. Loose articles screw up their consistency.

Also, I've actually been boarding a ride when someone tossed their backpack onto the control panel of a ride, hitting one of the stop buttons and shutting down the ride. I'm sure that isn't the most common things (I've only seen it once), but it's yet another thing to worry about.

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On Judge Roy Scream, they don't have to check the lapbars each at the same time. When you have 2 employees per row, at Six Flags Great America, they wait for the other employee to be done with the row. They don't just keep on going like at Judge Roy Scream, they will keep on going, and it's a smarter solution.

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I don't see how one way is better than the other. If one keeps going, you still can't dispatch the train until both people have completely checked it, right? So considering the slower checker would still finish at the same time in either way, seems to me to be a draw.

Actually, thinking about it a little more, if there is a problem that comes up during the check, it would probably be easier to handle if two people are there at the same time, which to me would make the Great America way the faster of the two?

Besides, it isn't really fair to compare the time it takes to send trains between a wooden coaster and an invert. Wooden harnesses are more forgiving to larger people, wooden coasters can have shorter people ride, and since you aren't looping with your legs dangling, people don't have to worry about shoes beforehand.

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Did I mention that Judge Roy Scream with lockers had a total 2 people working the ride for a less than minute dispatch?? A worker on that ride even has to move the locker sliding door. Demon with bins was also getting less than a minute dispatch.

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The Arrow trains are more like wooden coaster trains than inverted trains.

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It was the person with a bloody nose on Deja Vu. It was let's do the stupid thing of let's the check the seatbelts first on Deja Vu, and than let's check the harnesses. That was stupid, but American Eagle, and Viper, they check them at the same time.

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From having seen that in effect at my last visit to Great America, my thinking was that you had to do it that way because you couldn't ensure that the belt was correct otherwise. Having said that, the ride should have been designed so you couldn't put down your harness until that check had been done, as that was the most ridiculous waste of time that I've ever seen at a ride.

I looked at it as a Vekoma design issue though, and not a 'how Six Flags runs the park' issue. I'm guessing that Vekoma told them how they had to check the harnesses anyway. I'm positive that no park runs a ride in a certain way that is obviously lower capacity "just because." They make people a lot more happier by getting them on the ride...

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I even think that they speed up putting there harness down, and seatbelt because they think they are taking time, and they don't want to waste time. They want to go already.

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I haven't seen this at all. I have seen them take their sweet time to figure out what is best for them. As someone else said, once you're there, it's all about you.

I will say that my last visit to Great America was the first time that in the morning, I saw them trying to run through their coasters at the same speed as usual, without filling all the seats. When asked by a guest why they couldn't get onto a ride when there was still an empty row, the operator said that it would take them as long to get them on the ride and check it as it would to send that train and bring in a new one, and that way they could get more people on it.

I was impressed by that. It's a little thing that I only saw at one ride that morning, but it means they care about capacity. And I do think that the locker thing *could* help for sure.

^"I don't see how one way is better than the other. If one keeps going, you still can't dispatch the train until both people have completely checked it, right? So considering the slower checker would still finish at the same time in either way, seems to me to be a draw.

Actually, thinking about it a little more, if there is a problem that comes up during the check, it would probably be easier to handle if two people are there at the same time, which to me would make the Great America way the faster of the two?"

This is how and why this happens. For Judge Roy Scream, you have an empty seat. Guess what the employee has to do. They have to take the time to buckle the seatbelt, and put the lapbar down. For Batman the Ride, they have to buckle the seatbelt, and put the harness down. It takes a lot of time.

The other girl or guy on the other side just waits there doing nothing. Some employees are faster than one another checking stuff, or having problems at rows.

It's not the theory that because one employee is automatically faster that they are going to be done first, and they get a prize for that. Rather, it has to do with putting the harnesses down, and buckling them because they take time putting them down.

The fast employee might have 4 harnesses to put down and buckle, while the other one has 1 harness to put down, and buckle. I would guess that more empty seats are on the right of the train compared to left. Also, maybe one employee has to walk back to a certain position. The only rides I feel that this matters are rides with seatbelts because they hold stuff up a lot.

It was painful on Deja Vu to see these workers put the harness down, wrap the seatbelt around the harness, and buckle the seatbelt to the harness all while the other person just stands there on the other side waiting doing nothing. There were two seatbelts on that ride.

For 3 employees, I thought it went quite fast because 1 employee would just put down all the harnesses, and buckle the empty seats. The trains went out fast.

Is it faster to do for a ride like Batman the Ride or the Cedar Fair way like Hydra? I wonder because they go across the rows (One person checks 4 harnesses on Hydra.) instead of one person just checking just 2 harnesses, and buckling them.

It seems like it would be faster the Hydra way?? Can someone time a ride like that, and give us the time? It seems like less walking for the employees. They had 4 employees for Batman. Each person could do 2 whole rows.

*** Edited 5/24/2008 6:16:56 PM UTC by Spinout*** *** Edited 5/24/2008 6:19:44 PM UTC by Spinout***

If I recall correctly, DV was designed with just one seatbelt and the other was added retroactively because people were afraid that the harness wouldn't hold.

The real solution to "beating the lockers" is for me to quit my job, and become a "designated loose article holder".

At $1.00 per person, over the course of a season - even just working the bench outside of one ride, I'd be set for at least 6 months. :-D

Hell, if I could make it efficient enough, I'd charge .50 and really win people over. Then, I could start a "VIP loose article" service, where, for a mere $20, I will walk around with you and hold EVERYTHING for you, while you have fun.

-Josh

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Raven-Phile said:
Then, I could start a "VIP loose article" service, where, for a mere $20, I will walk around with you and hold EVERYTHING for you, while you have fun.

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Sold! :)

(is that for the day?)

Nope, that is probably just to haul your useless crap from one ride to the next. :)

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Spinout said:
That's because with this locker policy, shoes are allowed to be taken off for inverted coasters because they might fall off. Other big articles for this policy like souvenir botttles, game prizes, bags, and so on are not allowed to be put in bins.

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There were backpacks piled up as well. Maybe they were lax on the policy because it was grade school day and they didn't feel comfortable making kids pay a buck for a locker. I realize that people may need to take off their shoes on a ride like Batman but aren't we running into a safety issue with a bunch of crap sitting on the loading platform instead of in bins?

Here's something I don't understand. Mr. Freeze at SFOT has the no loose article policy. Mr. Freeze at SFStl does not. Instead they have baskets attached to the railing. Are these not the same ride? Why does one require lockers and other can make due with a basket?

The Mr. Freeze's are the same ride, except one is painted blue, and one is painted red, and darkish blue. Also, one Mr. Freeze animatronic (SFStL) is towards the back of the station, while the other one is towards the front. The one in Texas has almost all of it's line indoors (little dinky part ouside) while not in StL. Thus, you have a lot more theming in Texas.

That's enough of the difference, but they are the same ride.

My guess as to why one has it, and one doesn't is because they are going to make less money at SFStL, and it's not worth it to them. I don't believe that park gets as packed as a bigger park.