Six Flags America - Spring 2024 - Concerned

I still have absolutely no interest in Cedar Fair getting involved with Six Flags because of reports like this. The thought of any of the current Cedar Fair parks falling to a level even close to this just makes me sad.

^ Prepare yourself Brett. You’ve got Richard Zimmerman and worse, Tim Fisher, who will be running the show . They are both former Paramount Parks guys; the only thing they understand is “data” on a spreadsheet and have no intuitive “feel” for running parks like a Ouimet or Disney or even Kinzel.

Has anyone ever seen Zimmerman or Fisher out casually walking the midways? Talking to guests? Picking up litter? Interacting with employees? Checking restroom cleanliness? Washing a picnic table? Checking on queue line length times? Watching a park show performance? To even have to ask these questions gives you the answer. They would be doing these things if they truly LOVED the business and didn’t see it as a 9-5 job. I hope they read this and prove us all wrong, I’m not holding my breath though.

I don't need them on the midways cleaning trash for a photo op. That was Kinzel's thing and he wasn't necessarily doing it out of the goodness of his heart.

I don't need them to know (or care) about coaster manufacturers or to come say hi to enthusiasts at events. I just want them to provide the resources for the park level GMs and management teams to provide the experience the parks in both chains have the ability to give. There is no reason a park with the location, drawing power and assets (goodcoaster lineups) of Great Adventure, Magic Mountain or SF Great America(just to name a few) deserve the terrible reputation they currently have because of the comically poor guest experience that is the norm. I'll be heartbroken if we're talking about Cedar Point and Kings Island in those terms in five years.

Gunkey Monkey:

Has anyone ever seen Zimmerman or Fisher out casually walking the midways?

This would require me to know what they look like.

If the CEO is out in one of their parks doing any of ^that^ often enough to be noticed by a guest, they're doing it wrong.

So Dick Knoebel is doing it wrong? Walt Disney did it wrong? The Koch family does it wrong? Ouimet did it wrong? Nobody is saying the need is for 10 hours a day, everyday, out in the park. Surely folks don't believe you run an outdoor entertainment business from an office though. As someone who walked the midways, knew first names of employees, and set the example/ culture in my professional career, running any successful entertainment business has some basic principles that just don’t change.

CEOs walking the midways isn't inherently wrong, but it's not the basis for a well run park or park chain. If I'm at a park that's clean and operating efficiently, I don't care if I ever see a suit on the midway.

You cannot successfully run any business without ground level observation and knowledge. It is impossible to see everything that is happening via emails, excel spreadsheets, and dashboards. Sure, those trends are valuable, but knowing the why and seeing it firsthand come from observations at the user level, or the guest level. It is just one small piece of being successful, it isn't the only thing they should be doing.

I do believe in order to be successful and have a well-run park, you need to get out from time to time and touch grass and experience your product.

Vater:

CEOs walking the midways isn't inherently wrong, but it's not the basis for a well run park or park chain. If I'm at a park that's clean and operating efficiently, I don't care if I ever see a suit on the midway.

This was the point I was making with a lot less clarity. I worked at a park in my younger years and we had a division VP that loved for everyone to see him walk the park with a pan and broom (that he rarely used). Behind the scenes, he was a penny pincher that encouraged spending savings in the name of padding his own bonus (he was open about it), he was a closet racist, and he pushed promoting retired people with little tangible leadership ability because they rarely challenged the status quo. But he sure was a hard working man of the people because he was out there smiling and sweeping up the occasional popcorn spill in his shirt and tie.

I don't disagree that a CEO should be familiar with daily operations, but not to the point that their presence is noticeable. Great examples of hands on leadership in the post above, but every single one is dealing with a single park. The CEO of a theme park chain has no business being out on a regular basis to the point that it's part of their personality.

If a CEO has to be in the parks walking around to ensure things are working well there's a bigger problem that needs to be addressed.

The execs don't need to be in the parks on a regular basis. Dick Knoebel doesn't run a billion-dollar company. The scope is entirely different. Even with Walt Disney, when he died, it was still just one park. General managers in the parks, sure, to an extent, but even they should be mostly deferring to their line managers to do stuff.

I'd love to know if they're getting NPS scores and what those look like. While imperfect, it's more about sentiment than transactions, and that's the thing they don't seem very well tuned in to.

NPS isn't always the best system. I worked somewhere where I and the remainder of the team were given NPS ratings by customers via phone/email surveys. Our manager expected us to coach the customers, what the customers inevitably were told was if we get less than a 9 or 10 on that survey we get in trouble, so if I am not doing something you like let me know so we can get it fixed right here. It was exceedingly rare to ever get less than a 9 or a 10. If someone did its because they were a complete trainwreck.

To clarify, I went behind other people who clearly did work that was well below standard, but still got those 9/10's because people didn't want to hurt them on those surveys.

BrettV:

I'll be heartbroken if we're talking about Cedar Point and Kings Island in those terms in five years.

After my trip to Cedar Point last weekend, I'm ready to talk about it in those terms NOW. :( Operations at a new low (Raptor and Gemini stacking EVERY TIME, Magnum running only two trains when most everything else in the park is down for wind), many food options eliminated, lower quality ingredients being used in the "good" food places, understaffed and incompetent security checkpoints, height sticks that are the wrong height, very minimal entertainment, unsavory guests, etc. They sent me a survey after my visit. Not sure they will ever make that mistake again. Hope they take some of what I had to say to heart and make some improvements. One or two more trips like that and I think I'm going to be looking for a new hobby.

You should visit parks in other countries. I recently did Europa, Phantasialand, and Alton. They were in another league compared to the cedar flags offerings. A good experience with good entertainment and food options is possible. I was shown that multiple times over. The parks here would rather save money to pay bonuses to execs who add nothing to the experience.

Also, SDC, Dollywood, Knoebels, Holiday World, this side of the pond. Disney and Uni also good but so busy. There are options, but far less than there used to be it seems.

Trip reports like this one along with personal experiences is way I am hesitant to visit this park along with others in the chain.

I am taking my boys on a small PA road trip this next week (Knoebels, Dorney, Hershey) and chose to skip / avoid Six Flags Great Adventure, I have heard a handful of rides have yet to open.

June of 06 I went to SFMM and missed out on 6 or 7 coasters because they were closed. Simply not worth my time.

I hope if this merger goes through CF can correct a lot of this, but my fear / concern is the impact it may have on the current CF parks.

Real NPS is conducted by third parties, and can actually have negative scores.

TheMillenniumRider:

You cannot successfully run any business without ground level observation and knowledge.

sounds like the next episode of ‘Undercover Boss’. I remember there was one on Great Wolf Lodge one time.

The ending of every episode:

“I’d like to send you to school full time”

**tear’s overflowing!!**

MDOmnis:

After my trip to Cedar Point last weekend, I'm ready to talk about it in those terms NOW. :( Operations at a new low (Raptor and Gemini stacking EVERY TIME, Magnum running only two trains when most everything else in the park is down for wind), many food options eliminated, lower quality ingredients being used in the "good" food places, understaffed and incompetent security checkpoints, height sticks that are the wrong height, very minimal entertainment, unsavory guests, etc.

It sounds like I better temper my expectations for our visit next week. At least Castaway Bay can't close for weather.

Went to Six Flags America yesterday and.. it wasn't that bad. Yes, all of the empty flat ride plots look terrible, but operationally the park was fine. All coasters were open (aside from Mind Eraser of course) and had appropriate staffing levels, with most having 4 employees checking restrains plus a grouper filling seats.

Mr. Six:

aside from Mind Eraser of course)

That ride was horrible 20+ years ago. It ‘erased my mind’ alright.