SIllverstar - what about the airtime
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ApolloAndy said:
Excuse me!?!? Where did this little piece of data come from? I don't find them at all uncomfortable, and I'm almost tempted to call you "Markey" for your unsubstantiated claim about health effects.
With high negative G's I mean everything above -2G. This is rather illegal. And, if you know even a little bit about biology, you will know that zero gravity or anything even worse for even a small period of time can disturb your bloodflow. This can cause severe head-aches, or even hemmerages in the head.
Craig the Coaster Freak said:
I understand what you are saying, but don't Intamin trains also have a significant difference between a full one and an empty one?
Come to think of it, isn't the difference betweena full an empty train on any coatsre sonsiderable? Why don't they all have trim brakes to put the train at a reasonable speed?
Because an Intamin train features 2x2 coaches, and a B&M train features 4x1 coaches. The weight over an Intamin train is spread more equally. The front of the train can pull the back and over a hill in case of an almost stall, and the back of a train can push the front over a hill. A B&M train isn't that long, it has its weight mainly spread sideways. This causes the speed margins of a B&M to be smaller than that of an Intamin.
General Public said:
Don't get your undies in a bunch. I just get tired of hearing nice coasters trashed because they lack a few SECONDS of airtime.... what are you doing the rest of the ride that's not airtime? Hating it and waiting for the next hill?
On SilverStar, you mainly enjoy the view. Or try not to fall asleep.
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Dutch Coastin' :: European coasters, thrills and theming!
So has it got airtime or not? From reading the above thread i just don't know! I'm guessing enthusiasts are being their usual picky selves and its actually quite good.
i do agree that airtime is in no way the be all and end all of how good a coaster is, far from it in fact. The airtime obsession by some enthusiasts seems well over-the-top. But, hyercoasters are built for airtime (except the hypertwisters) so there is justification for criticism in this case, if indeed Silverstar lacks in that department. So, someone who has ridden Nitro/AC and Silverstar answer me this - are Nitro/AC definitely superior rides?
Mr Rush said:
So has it got airtime or not? From reading the above thread i just don't know! I'm guessing enthusiasts are being their usual picky selves and its actually quite good.
Yes and no. When you ride front- or backseat, you have some *minor* floating airtime. Anywhere else on the train, you have no airtime what so ever. Clear enough? :)
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Dutch Coastin' :: European coasters, thrills and theming!
That makes more sense now, DNRK, thanks!
I just think people get mad when a ride is almost all hills and has minimal airtime. If Silverstar was more of the hyper-twister realm, I doubt people would be disappointed with it having minimal airtime.
Actually, those helixes made me nauseaus.
I guess I'm not the helix type.
CobraRoller said:
Yes, but Raging Bull still has a nice dose of airtime to it. Although most of the "airtime hills" on Raging Bull are now trimmed or have no airtime, you still have the first drop. The only other hill that you sometimes get airtime on is the drop after the MCBR.-----------------
I beg to differ. The trim on the third hill ruins ejector airtime, but adds to the floating sensation- and thats the only hill thats trimmed. The next trim is right before the figure 8, which lessens the positive g's. The ride has plenty of airtime.
-First Drop
-Third Hill
-Overbanked Hill
-Off the MCBR
-Bunny Hill
-Turnaround before the figure 8.
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Never Has Gravity Been So Uplifting.
DRNK said:
With high negative G's I mean everything above -2G. This is rather illegal. And, if you know even a little bit about biology, you will know that zero gravity or anything even worse for even a small period of time can disturb your bloodflow. This can cause severe head-aches, or even hemmerages in the head.
Normally, I wouldn't get my panties all in a bunch (to use a phrase pseudo quoted earlier) but you seem to be insulting both my intelligence and my understand of physiology and physics, so I'll bite.
a) Name a coaster that pulls -2G. I will concede that negative G's is not a stat. that I keep up on, but I'm pretty sure that there aren't many coasters out there breaking the -1G mark. Keep in mind that Hypersonic accelerates at about 2G's on launch. The B&M hypers are no where near this mark, so your explanation of trims is off base.
b) Something is either illegal or legal. Nothing is "rather illegal." (semantics) Furthermore, New Jersey is the only state with any regulations on forces during rides, and afaik there's no regulation on negative G's.
c) I know enough about biology to know you're wrong. If you want a sustained -1G experience, stand on your head. It'll take a lot longer than the time a B&M hyper hops over a camelback for you to get a headache or to experience brain hemorrhaging (unless you're keg standing ). You want to know what it feels like to have 0G for about 8 hrs? Go to sleep.
d) In the post that I originally responded to, you mention that B&M hyper trains are heavier than Intamin hyper trains (almost twice as heavy, you claim, which I don't believe). If they are heavier, then the difference in mass of the full B&M hyper train when compared to the empty B&M train is relatively SMALLER than the Intamin full when compared to the Intamin empty. Thus, the effect of the mass of the 36 people in the B&M train is LESS than the effect of the 36 people in the Intamin train. Thus, the variance in speed at any given point on the track due to number of passengers for a B&M train is LESS than that of an Intamin. However, you claim that B&M hypers require trims to reconcile this smaller difference, while the Intamin hypers do not (the ones that do have magnetic trims which engage wheter the train is full or empty). So all biology, legality, and statistics aside your theory still does not match up with the facts.
If you knew even a little bit of physics.....
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*** This post was edited by ApolloAndy on 12/1/2002. ***
The reason B&M rides have trims everywhere is simply because it's B&M's style. They've recently shown that they're not interested in building new, ultra-intense rides (like Intamin continues to build) and the trims are there to control that - they keep the train under a certain maximum speed at that point, usually set by the park.
If it were really the B&M trains that were the problem, then B&M's older rides would require trims - and they don't have them. Not to mention there's no reason B&M trains should be much heavier than Intamin trains (on the contrary, I should think the Intamin trains are actually slightly heavier).
-Nate
coasterdude318 said:
Sorry DRNK, but Apollo Andy is right. Your theory makes no sense.The reason B&M rides have trims everywhere is simply because it's B&M's style. They've recently shown that they're not interested in building new, ultra-intense rides (like Intamin continues to build) and the trims are there to control that - they keep the train under a certain maximum speed at that point, usually set by the park.
If it were really the B&M trains that were the problem, then B&M's older rides would require trims - and they don't have them. Not to mention there's no reason B&M trains should be much heavier than Intamin trains (on the contrary, I should think the Intamin trains are actually slightly heavier).
-Nate
I agree and disagree with Nate on certain points.
First, I disagree with your statement that the desired speed is set by the park. I think that would be set by B&M to ensure the coaster not only navigates the hill, but completes the circuit also.
But, I do agree with you about Intamin's trains being heavier. S:RoS's train is about 1 2/3's as long as B:DK's train and has 'more' to it.
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SFNE Central- Online Six Flags New England Resource
Devoted Intamin Lover for Life!
Normally, I wouldn't get my panties all in a bunch (to use a phrase pseudo quoted earlier) but you seem to be insulting both my intelligence and my understand of physiology and physics, so I'll bite.
I will see your reply as criticism, and that's a good thing. Let's see if you're right. :)
a) Name a coaster that pulls -2G. I will concede that negative G's is not a stat. that I keep up on, but I'm pretty sure that there aren't many coasters out there breaking the -1G mark. Keep in mind that Hypersonic accelerates at about 2G's on launch. The B&M hypers are no where near this mark, so your explanation of trims is off base.
I never claimed there are coasters that pull -2G. There are several towering installations that are capable of reaching this force, for instance the shot at the top of the Stratosphere Tower, and a standard Intamin bungee drop. The trims are simply used to keep G-forces controlable.
b) Something is either illegal or legal. Nothing is "rather illegal." (semantics) Furthermore, New Jersey is the only state with any regulations on forces during rides, and afaik there's no regulation on negative G's.
Rather illegal is called an understatement. It is supposed to emphasise the fact that is absolutely not allowed. In Germany all roller coasters are tested by the TÜV, the strictest testing authority out there. If the TÜV only suspect that the high G-forces on a roller coaster may cause you serious injury, the ride will not be approved. TÜV approval is necessary for all mechanical or electrical appliances in Germany, so roller coasters as well.
c) I know enough about biology to know you're wrong. If you want a sustained -1G experience, stand on your head. It'll take a lot longer than the time a B&M hyper hops over a camelback for you to get a headache or to experience brain hemorrhaging (unless you're keg standing ). You want to know what it feels like to have 0G for about 8 hrs? Go to sleep.
I think you are mixing something up here. G-force stands for gravitational force. I assume you know what gravity is. ;) When you walk on the earth, you sustane 1G. Even when you stand on your head, or sleep. When you walk on the moon, you experience a bit more than 0G. For a person to feel negative G's, you must first break free of the gravitational pull of a planet (by moving upworths) and then be pulled back to the planet (by moving downworths). You now experience negative G's.
d) In the post that I originally responded to, you mention that B&M hyper trains are heavier than Intamin hyper trains (almost twice as heavy, you claim, which I don't believe). If they are heavier, then the difference in mass of the full B&M hyper train when compared to the empty B&M train is relatively SMALLER than the Intamin full when compared to the Intamin empty. Thus, the effect of the mass of the 36 people in the B&M train is LESS than the effect of the 36 people in the Intamin train. Thus, the variance in speed at any given point on the track due to number of passengers for a B&M train is LESS than that of an Intamin. However, you claim that B&M hypers require trims to reconcile this smaller difference, while the Intamin hypers do not (the ones that do have magnetic trims which engage wheter the train is full or empty). So all biology, legality, and statistics aside your theory still does not match up with the facts.
It's all about weight-balancing. Firstly, I would like to point you to the fact that an Intamin train only accomodates 28 people. Secondly, I would like you to again look at my earlier response. Train-length has a lot to do with differences in speed (weight-balancing!). If you have specific questions, I will be glad to answer them. But I will not repeat my earlier statement.. sorry! :)
One minor detail concerning train weight. :) Some people don't seem to believe my statement concerning this subject. But let's keep in mind that B&M trains are very solid. You have the train-backbone (bottom of the train, front to back), the weight-baring seat-backbones (above train-backbone, left to right), the seat-bones (at the back of the seats) and so one. Intamin uses a more car-like chassis. This design doesn't use a lot of backbones, but light-weight steelplating. Just like your average car.
Any more sceptisism or questions? ;)
*** This post was edited by DRNK on 12/2/2002. ***
General Public said:
They're just whiners who cry if a coaster isn't *exactly* how they want it.
If I order a steak at a resteraunt medium rare and it comes to me well done, I'm not going to like it as much, because I like my steak medium rare.
If I ride a hyper coaster with no airtime, I'm not going to like it as much as a hyper coaster with airtime, because that's just what I like.
What's the difference?
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If the shoe fits, find another one.
DRNK said:
I think you are mixing something up here. G-force stands for gravitational force. I assume you know what gravity is. When you walk on the earth, you sustane 1G. Even when you stand on your head, or sleep. When you walk on the moon, you experience a bit more than 0G. For a person to feel negative G's, you must first break free of the gravitational pull of a planet (by moving upworths) and then be pulled back to the planet (by moving downworths). You now experience negative G's.
It's all about weight-balancing. Firstly, I would like to point you to the fact that an Intamin train only accomodates 28 people. Secondly, I would like you to again look at my earlier response. Train-length has a lot to do with differences in speed (weight-balancing!). If you have specific questions, I will be glad to answer them. But I will not repeat my earlier statement.. sorry!
Okay. You obviously don't understand the basic physics of the issue. If you want a -1 vertical G experience, all you have to do is stand on your head. Your body doesn't know the difference between standing on your head and floating over a -1G camelback. The force pointed in the direction of your head is precisely 1G in both situations. One because you're actually accelerating downwards, the other because you have inverted the vertical axis, causing the force to be in the opposite relative direction. Similarly, if you want a 0 vertical G experience, you lie down. The force of gravity is pointed at a perpendicular angle to your vertical axis and so the force in your vertical axis is 0. Granted this creates a 1G lateral (if you're on your side), but you still experience 0 vertical G's.
S:RoS SFNE and MF have 36 passenger trains. S:RoS SFA and SFDL have 32 iirc.
Your earlier explanation doesn't have anything to do with train length and it also doesn't make sense. You said a heavier train needs trims to reconcile a relavtively smaller weight difference, and thus relavtively smaller speed difference, than a lighter train with a relatively larger speed difference.
Train length and rider position has nothing to do with the change in speed from full to empty. If you crowded all 36 people in the front row of the train vs. in the back row, vs. spread out throughout the train, the difference in speed would be extremely negligible.
Explain this "weight balancing" and "very complicated mathematics" to me. I thnik I can handle it.
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*** This post was edited by ApolloAndy on 12/2/2002. ***
I still don't much of what DRNK has to say. I do not believe *any* ride even comes close to delivering -2 G's (in fact, much of what's referred to "negative G's" on a coaster is still very much positive, just less than 1G). Negative G's would be *extremely* painful on a ride with restraints.
As for train weight, I'm going simply off my own observations, but there is by far much more to the Intamin trains than there is to the B&M trains. Sure the B&M trains are wider, the the Intamin trains are *much* longer. To suggest one weighs *twice* the other sounds like BS to me.
-Nate
ravenguy98 said:
General Public said:
They're just whiners who cry if a coaster isn't *exactly* how they want it.
If I order a steak at a resteraunt medium rare and it comes to me well done, I'm not going to like it as much, because I like my steak medium rare.
If I ride a hyper coaster with no airtime, I'm not going to like it as much as a hyper coaster with airtime, because that's just what I like.
What's the difference?
Umm... a lot?
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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
well, lets see, if i order a steak dinner in a rest. then i'm paying to have something prepared (or built, if u will), for me right there, and if the person makes it wrong, i have the right to demand it fixed my way, since it's my out of pocket expense.
unfortunately, when i go 2 an amusment park, i'm not paying for the cost of the coaster(u can say what u want, but i dont know anybody on this forum that goes to a park enough times to actually pay for a million $ plus coaster), i'm using someone else's coaster for my entertainment, i'm only paying for the chance to ride it, so it's up to whomever is paying for the coaster as to what they want, so it matters very little if i like it or not, since i didn't pay to design or build it, only what the majority of people, usually the GP like. -edit
i'm not trying 2 be rude and tell u u're stupid, an idiot, etc, since i don't know u, but it is kinda like comparing apples and oranges, i get what u r saying, but it's not the best analogy(sp?) for u 2 use
*** This post was edited by TeknoScorpion on 12/2/2002. ***
Lol, give me a friggin' break. Yes, I realize that when going to a park, you don't pay for a coaster specifically, as you would a steak, but my point still stands, if someone likes something one way, and they get it another, then I don't see what's wrong in saying so. Using the term enthusiass just because some found Silver Star to be lacking, as you did here:
General Public said:
They're just whiners who cry if a coaster isn't *exactly* how they want it.
I would venture to say SStar isn't as bad as these enthusiASSts say it is.
is just over the top. Ok, you're not a big airtime fan, but other people are. They aren't whining because the coaster isn't exactly how they like it, they're simply stating their negative opinion of the ride, which you would maybe disagree with if you actually ever rode the thing. And thing is, there are other coasters out there that are exactly how exactly how we want them. And those are the ones we love.
There are plenty of other people here who aren't big air time fans, its not really that unique a concept. But if other people here are, it doesn't make any one's opinion wrong or right, or anyone an enthusiass. It just makes it different.
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If the shoe fits, find another one.
*** This post was edited by ravenguy98 on 12/3/2002. ***
No, but many 'enthusiasts' still feels the need to deride a coaster because it isn't exactly how they wished it would be.
Please DON'T cry about it.
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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
I think you guys are missing the fact that the ride has so much potential to be great but is rather ho hum.
The Steel Force Syndrome I call it. Too me Steel force looked liek maggie with crazier bunny's what I got was rather dissapoining. It had one saving grace which sounds a lot like Silver Star's S curve and that was the Turnaround.
The mid course killed almost all air that I should have got on the Bunnies. Did I get some yeah. But very little.
The ride had so much potential to be an airtime monster but alas was nothing.
It was a good ride but it was not in any way shape or form amazing.
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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!
I AM WITTY!
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