Shapiro: Charging for autographs and pictures - more line cutting

Dad: "Hey kids, Six Flags raised their prices this year. I think we should consider driving 200 miles and going to Knoebels instead, all the enthusiasts on Coasterbuzz say it's a better park, and they have a Twister ride"!

Kids: "WTF is a Knoebels? We want to ride Nitro"! *** Edited 3/20/2006 9:07:11 PM UTC by DWeaver***

Hey kids, Six Flags raised their prices this year, let's go twice! ;)

I've always considered parks a bit of a bargain in that you can experience multi-million dollar thrills for a few bucks.

It just seems odd that a park (not talking about the chain here) in the same market as Disneyland, Knott's, and Universal Studios, would raise prices like that. I'm sure the market will bear it, but it just doesn't seem to make sense until the product is beefed up.

It's called being 2+ billion in debt, with everyone on your back. It has very little to do with what other chains are doing because Six Flags sits in a completely unique (for lack of a better term ;) ) situation.

Gonch:

Yea, right now Great Adventure & all other Six Flags parks HAVE been winning out over the other smaller parks in its regional area... because of their superior value (some here saying underpriced, but I only argue the season pass is underpriced, not single daily admission)... but I'm talking about in a few years down the road when they (Shapiro & Co.) start jacking up their prices (maybe this year or even next year) higher & higher.

'05 & years previous, it WAS worth it & they WERE in the competitive range of what would be acceptable for a park of its magnatiude compared to the smaller parks... but when you all of a sudden throw them a big increase without showing them a reason for the increase (Great Adventure I'd argue against that since it seems to be getting a bazillion dollar attraction every year... makes sense to jack that base price up, not to mention everything else it has)... then people might start looking elsewhere.

BTW: When I say a competitive park for Six Flags & its competition, I'd say a park within a 50 mile radius would be acceptable for a "normal" family to drive to that would consider it 'local' in their regional area (and regional metropolitan area usually covers an area that's about a 50 mile radius).... DWEAVER...

Previously, Six Flags was affordable and a worthy trip (even though some parks had complaints of bad c/s & dirty midways)... but if Shaprio has his way & charges more & more (as peeps here are more than happy with), I don't see how this is going to keep them in the bracket of an affordable family trip as THEY keep rising while the other chains & independant parks level off, when the only difference from previous years is just a so-called "improved customer experience"... of which, like I said before... doesn't justify a rediculous parking price & a jacked up entrance fee.

Show me cheaper food, games that I have a chance at, tarmac that has no cracks, themed sections, no ride-down-times FIRST, then I'll consider a REASONABLE price increase dependant on the size of the park & what the park offers.

---- Just trying to look out for the little folks. :)

*** Edited 3/20/2006 9:45:51 PM UTC by DawgByte II***

Dad: "Hey kids, let's check out some small, independant parks in the area instead of Six Flags". They have cheaper food, games we have a chance at, tarmac that has no cracks, themed sections and lush landscapes"!

Kids: "Crap, our dad has become a internet coaster nerd". Alright dad, but next time we want to go ride Kingda Ka"! ;) *** Edited 3/20/2006 10:07:41 PM UTC by DWeaver***

Then go sell some newspapers kids....a whole MESS of newspapers. ;)

Lmao! Hey, this is fun.

That's a pretty smart dad there!

Um... well yeah, cause that dad would be ME!

But I'm still considered the weirdo of the family...;)

Kids: "Crap, our day has become a internet coaster nerd". Alright dad, but next time we want to go ride Kingda Ka"!

"I'm sorry kids, but the Six Flags website says that Kinda ka is closed for the rest of the season due to a mechanical problem or something and a lot of their other rides and coasters are closed too. Their new wooden coaster isn't open either because Six Flags hasn't finished building it yet, which is strange becasue of the mild winter we have had."

Heck, after they came back a dollar short, I'd tell them that Shapiro doesn't want their chump change. Looks like It's a Small World again. And if they complain, I'll threaten to sell them to the Gypsies and go by myself. ;)

Parks like HW will win out because most families has less desposible income than they did five years ago with the shrinking of real wages. Qbot is a rip off and a scam that only people who has lots of money to spend and it divides the rich and the poor(and what's little left of) the middle class. Not counting the gate price going to HW on a normal day (Not an event day) I only need about $10-15 to cover food, parking and all the soda pop I can drink not to mention the gate price is at least $10 LESS than most SF parks! It's EXTREMELY rare for HW to make a mistake! Any moron who been to HW and any SF parks can see the difference of the much more affordable option of HW. Going to a SF park not counting the gate price again is going to cost me at least $40-50 to cover parking, food and drinks and the drinks @ SF are very costly ($3-4 for a drink) instead of free unlimited. HW also tries much harder to run their rides at max capacity when possible! They won't make you wait 3 hours for Voyage with a single train operation unless the extra trains are not operatable in a safe manner!

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...the only difference from previous years is just a so-called "improved customer experience"... of which, like I said before... doesn't justify a rediculous parking price & a jacked up entrance fee.

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But what they are offering is a ton of coasters, the biggest, baddest flats and more in general to do in one spot that the others. It is undervalued in that sense. Hell, most parks are. I think the point is that regardless of all the little issues (customer service, park condition, etc) that these types of parks offer so much bang for the buck that it's crazy.

(NOTE - 'these types of parks' means the large corporate parks)

$60 is not a lot to ask for such a product.

A family of four can do it for $240. What else can that family from the Philly suburbs do that day?

-Phillies game - $64 to $176 depending on seating (and get this - parking is $10, and food/drink/souvenirs are comparable to theme park prices)

-Philly Museum Of Art - $40 (parking is $7 to $10 and food/drink remains comparable while souvenirs are comparable or higher. On top of that even the museum offers upcharges like a $20 per person Afternoon Tea sitdown)

-Concert at Wachovia Center (Billy Joel) - $180 to $300 depending on seating (prepaid parking is $12, food/drink/souvenir prices comparable to higher)

That's all I have the patience to look up right now. It covers three distinct options and oddly enough the big parking issue is really a non-issue for our imaginary family as it never comes down to more than a few bucks)

Also consider that a portion of GP-types will indeed be savvy enough to score the $40 online admission and can do the park for $160.

I dunno. Seeems very comparable across the board and cost-vs-what I'm offered ratio feels very positive in favor of the amusement park.

I mean if something in the $150 to $250 range for a full day of activity for a family of four feels too steep for you, what exactly do you guys do for fun? That's not rhetorical or facetious. Really, what do you family folks do?

I can't think of single thing in the past few years that wasn't that much for the four of us. (I don't count little timekiller local things like mini-golf or a movie or hanging out at the park or whatever because those aren't 'event' type things and they don't occupy a full day nor have any sort of 'getting away' aspect to them).

I guess what I'm saying is since all of these people are going to be so turned away from the 'ridiculous' prices at SF, where are they going and getting as much for their money and paying less? (Hint- another amusement park is the wrong answer :) )

No it is the right answer especially HW & Knoebels! :-)

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DWeaver said:
It's called being 2+ billion in debt, with everyone on your back.

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So people should just hand over their wallets out of pity? To paraphrase my neighbor who never rakes a leaf, "I didn't put them there, so I'm not going to take them out of there either."

For me, going to a Knoebels involves six hours of driving, which amounts to approximately one tank of gas. I just filled up yesterday and 15 gallons ran me 36 bucks. I'm not going to save a whole lot running up there. Not to mention, I'm likely not going to have the time/energy to really enjoy the park because of said six hours of driving. (If I stay over a night the price comparison to SFA is unquestioned).

I suppose I could drive over to Ocean City and go to Trimper's, but again, we are talking about 6 hours of driving, not very cost effective. Same goes for BGW. How about I just take the short hour (or so) down to King's Dominion. That wont burn up too much gas, but wait, their online pricing (walk-up price not available on the website) is only five bucks less than SFA's online price. Well maybe I save on parking...or maybe I dont! I cant look on PKD's site and find out what the parking even is! At least SFA is upfront with me. But really, total saved (assuming even a ridiculously low 5 buck PKD parking fee) for the mythical "family of four": $5 off each admission + $10 bucks for parking = $30!

Is thirty bucks enough to constantly disuade people from going to SFA? Take into account that the aveage DC are person will likey have to encounter the Wilson Bridge construction and/or the Springfield Interchange (Mixing Bowl) Improvement Project which can add time/frustration. No, I think SFA's pricing is competitive and SFA is one of the few SFI properties that faces competition.

The *only* SF parks that I see *maybe* having a price comparison problem are SFMM, SFDL and possibly SFNE. But as Gonch has stated above, DL trounces their competition. One competing park from NE (Quassy) has already folded, and SFMM offers a product with enough difference from Disney and KBF that it might be able to get along (this would be the one park I think could be more price/competitor concious).

But yheh, whatever, coasters rock and stuff...
:) jeremy

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...assuming even a ridiculously low 5 buck PKD parking fee...

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Why are some of you peeps saying parking is sometimes too low? What's wrong with $1.00, $3.00, $5.00 parking? What's wrong with free? Either price you pay... it's not like the experience changes. You don't get to jump on the moving sidewalk (aka: Jetsons-syndrome), you're not parking on a wide-open lot where there's trained monkey butlers opening your doors for you, hell... you're not even covered for any theft or damage that may happen while you're in the park!

Keep the parking cheap, and I'll take a boost in the gate prices. It may be all psychosomatic, but parking your car shouldn't cost much in an open... sometimes unpatroled & sloppy parked... lot. It's all revenue in their pocket that we never see a return on. Lighting? Landscaping? For all the cars they get per year, it should be like daylight at 10pm in that lot with flowers around every corner & a friendly security guard welcoming us back to the vehicle.

Inflation will eventually make all lots (except the current indie-free ones) around $10.00 avg, but that's not likely to happen until sometime next decade. $15.00 avg should never happen... and is where I'd draw the line.

So you'd pay $40 at the gate with free parking, but not $25 to park and free ride all day entry all because of how they choose to explain where the money goes?

That makes sense. ;)

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So people should just hand over their wallets out of pity? "

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Not quite sure what your talking about. What does pity have to do with anything? I was answering a question as to why SF raised prices where most chains are lowering prices. Because of their debt situation, they have to do things differently. That's just the reality, regardless of whether people decide to hand over their wallet or not.

Pardon my French, but some of you really need to get your heads out of your enthusiasses. Some of the overdramatic stances and sweeping generalizations are pretty rediculous.

First off regarding the price increases. Do you guys really think most people are going to end up paying $60 for a day at SF, with all the in-store coupons and discounts? Give me a break.

Secondly, people are going to pay the $15 parking fee. *YOU* may not, but that's you. Get over yourself, you do not represent most people. People who love Six Flags, and are used to riding big rollercoasters are not going to suddenly start going to Knoebles which has two great wooden coasters, unless that is their intention to begin with (enthusiasts, families within distance).

Thirdly, I've never known very many indiviuals (besides coaster nerds) who really look all that deeply into a day at the park. They're not planning a trip to China for God's sake, it's a day at a park. It's been proven time and time again that people are willing to pay for a name brand they like, whether it be Sony, Apple or Six Flags.

You guys make great points, but remember we live in a country where the top selling female artist is Britney Spears. With rare exception, people just don't look as deep into amusement parks as we do.

It's a day of fun with friends, not a 10 page debate between coaster nerds. *** Edited 3/21/2006 1:20:26 AM UTC by DWeaver***