Shapiro: Charging for autographs and pictures - more line cutting

Business as usuall got them into billions of dollars in debt. Pay-to-cut on the surface may seem like it will bring in a profit, but the park can't count the number of people avoiding parks with pay-to-cut systems. Sure, that number is low now, but it will only grow as the issue becomes more public. It isn't that Disney and Ceder Fair are more generous, they're just smarter and their profits show that. *** Edited 3/13/2006 4:22:17 PM UTC by rc-madness***

Charging for a hug.... LMAO!
Sounds like prostitution to me.

Yeah but rc-madness no business can count the number of people avoiding parks with pay to cut systems or for whatever reason, and I would even bet that number is less than 5% even if it was known. Seems like a petty thing. You can either pay to move ahead of the line or with Q-Bot you can pay to have the computer wait in line for you or you can choose to stand in line.

Gonch said:

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Aside from the above theory - the one that says "good, take your chump change elsewhere"

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LOL

Yah, we don't need it. It's not like we're in debt or anything. ;)

Yah, I know we're not business geniouses here...in fact I'd venture that Six Flags would be in a LOT more debt had one of us run things for a season or two (hello?! 700' tall 200mph launched rocket with 20 loops and like 10 minutes of solid air dude!) But come on (because it just means we'll take our business elsewhere), I think most of us aren't worried about paying more, we're worried they are doing the right thing. Who wants more Astroworlds? Poof. (Not that we won't see more before the year is through)

The stock had losses of $1.55 per share in the 4th quarter? Holy Crap!!! Last week on Bloomberg, they were predicting a loss of "only" $0.72 per share. That's pretty bad.

Best part is, the stock price hasn't really moved. That's not because the stockholders are drooling over the potential income derived from Batman autographs and Tweety-bird photos. They're jes' waitin' on the Big Land Sale! Yeeehaw!

Someone mentioned about HW's free soda & parking built into the price BUT HW still charges FAR LESS than most corporate parks! In fact I've noticed that HW gate admission is (or was) EXACTLY the SAME price as my local park Valleyfair yet VF charges $3 for a drink & $8 for parking so HW is one of the BEST values in the world! Also HW is not scare to show their food menus & prices on their webiste because they know that almost ALL meals including drinks (which are free) are UNDER $7 which at the croporate park count on a minumum of $10 for a cheap meal and at least $12 for most meals at a Six Flags. Let me see $60 for admission to SFMM, $15 for parking and at least $30 for food=$100. A day at HW $33 for admission+$15 for food= $48. HW will get people coming from Louisville & St. Louis instead of SF parks bacause it will be at least $20 cheaper per person to go to HW than even the cheaper SF parks.

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Gemini said:
I think if LG ran an amusement park, the restrooms would be free, but you'd have to pay for toilet paper. And he'd be OK with that. :)

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Evidently you haven't been to Mexico. Many of the bus stations and parts of non-tourist Mexico have people selling toilet paper outside the bano.

Back on topic.. I see many people comparing the prices here and stating that it is more expensive to goto Six Flags than to Disney, which is not true for at least 80% of Americans. When talking about Disney, you have to factor in hotel prices, transportation costs, etc. For Six Flags, their current target market takes a daytrip there. Sure, they would love to have a destination status like Disney, but currently they dont. These price increases seem to be directed at the family whould like like to get a disney-esq experience, but only for one day.

Six Flags is not Disney... PERIOD...

and why would people pay ridiculous prices when most SF parks have cheaper competitors?

Hrm...
Go to SFMM where I have to pay 60 bucks, + parking, + money to get a autographs for my little kid, or take them to a KBF.

I just don't see them getting away with this like shapiro thinks.

Shapiro should spend a few days at HolidayWorld, see if he can wrap is head around how the park actually profits from reasonable prices and free perks. Keeping the customers happy actually does lead to a loyal fan base and greater income. It's funny how HolidayWorld profits from Six Flag's poor financial tactics.

Sure you can squeeze a lot of cash out of people using money making scams and car salesmen tactics. The problem is the only people left in your park is a bunch of chumps. Other parks end up profiting just by offering a few kind, symbolic gestures to the public.

To Disney's credit they are able to squeeze more money out of customers without offending people. Sure, it’s a high ticket price at the gate, but once inside you don't hear a lot of complaints. People end up leaving feeling like they got a good deal, despite all the smoke and mirrors.

Amusement parks are in the business of making people happy. I don't know anyone who goes to a park to get ripped off. And if Six Flags doesn't recognize they've got a greedy image problem they need to combat, it may be time to dump that Six Flags stock. *** Edited 3/14/2006 3:17:13 PM UTC by rc-madness***

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johnny1note said:
On channel 4 news in Buffalo this morning they had a segment about Shapiro walking through SFDL and all he said on the news was that they were putting in a new water slide and that they were going to make SF a more family park with more concerts, festivals and family entertainement, which I think SFDL has to much of now, so unless we get coasters from other parks in the chain we probobly won't get any new coasters ever again, I was hopeing that they wouls sell SFDL to CF, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

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Concerts are a big moneymaker for Darien Lake, and the Kingdom Bound festival is the second-largerst christan music festival. These couple days are THE busiest days in the park. Plus, one of the reasons people like Darien better than some of the other larger parks in the chain is the family atmosphere, the decent customer service, and all the other little things Darien has retained from the Funtime-owned days.

We're getting a new slide, and BATMAN IS SITTING IN A LOT ACROSS THE STREET! Stop whining, we have a new slide for '06 and a new coaster for '07, that's the biggest news since we were branded a Six Flags park. So stop whining: what we're getting is good, so enjoy it.

I think everyone should just wait in line. It is part of the experience. How much more money do they need to make now that they have gone up so high on daily admission and parking at all the Six Flags parks? If it weren't for the money, none of these programs would exist at all. Next thing you know, you will be able to pay a fee and run a Six Flags park for a day. I can even imagine them renting out the Looney Tunes costumes so that you can become a character. Maybe all the money could go to the wooden coaster maintenance fund that obviously does not exist in any of the Six Flags parks at this time. *** Edited 3/14/2006 5:44:57 PM UTC by coasterkitty***

Renting out Looney Tunes costumes! Now that's a money making scam I would totally buy into.

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RCTfan said:

But they do capture those special interactions you have with the characters.

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Hey, how you "interact" with a character behind closed doors is fine with me, but I don't want to see it in the middle of an amusement park! :)

I thought Disney was a family oriented park! Who in the name of all that is good is running this brothel?!! Gary Glitter?!! :)

-Tambo

This is just an issue with me, but I WOULD PAY FOR VIP BATHROOMS!. Tip the lady handing me the towel, whatever. I perceive that as a value I would pay for. For someone else, it might be fitting in 20 rides instead of 10. They've got to make the money somewhere.

We're talking about $2,100,000,000.00+ in debt, pretty much the chain's full value. 5% (I don't pretend to know the actual rate(s)) on that is $105,000,000 (the same amount as the land under SFA, which SF has said is their most valuable) a year. Batman & Robin:the Chiller cost $15 million, so give or take it's the cost of adding 7 significant coasters to the chain each year while actually adding nothing.

I don't know what it'll take to fix it, but they've got to do something.

The way Six Flags was buying up parks ten years ago was insane. They bought like twenty amusement parks in the span of ten years! Did they put it all on a credit card or what? I don't know how they came up with all that capitol back then, but it is certainly obvious they don't have it now.

If Six Flags can't afford to run a park appropriately without pissing more people than they can bring in, then they need to sell parks off to those who can afford to run them, before they sink further into that financial black hole.

The problem is there doesn't seem to be too many buyers out there right now. Other companies have witnessed the problem with overexpansion, and they've become conservative with their purchases. Without buyers, Six Flags parks run the risk of falling into AstroWorld's fate. And who is to blame for that?- Six Flags. *** Edited 3/14/2006 5:17:27 PM UTC by rc-madness***

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rc-madness said:
I was at Disneyworld a few weeks ago and Fastpass worked to perfection. Never waited in line for more than 1/2 hour and the parks were packed. No one was frustrated about the system because everyone had access.

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If you truly believe that no one gets angry at Disney's Fastpass, then you lack a necessary amount of knowledge. Because it is freely available to all, Fastpass requires the opposite handling of Six Flags' system, favoring those with Fastpass to the same degree as Six Flags integrates those without. Those in Disney's standby lines will see nine times the (per guest) number of virtually queued guests admitted compared to Six Flags. It quite upsets Disney's guests, who have been waiting in line, to see three times more people admitted from Fastpass than standby -- Disney's guests do complain, and quite vociferously, about Fastpass.

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Disney's guests do complain

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But you never hear about this...

Why?

Because "This is the happiest place on earth!"

And because there is a secret passage that connects Guest Services to a dungeon located deep below Sleeping Beauty's castle.

But the bigger question...

"Stand By Line?" When did the non Fast Pass / non Q-bot / Non what ever become the "Stand By Line?" Does this make the Fast Pass / Q-bot / Waht ever line become the "regular line?"

More people favor pay-to-cut over FastPass because more people are excluded? That only makes sense to those paying to cut to the front of the line. Believe me, those who only have time to ride two or three coasters that day because they didn't choose to pay an extra $30 aren't telling themselves what a great deal this is.

The parks that run FastPass bust their ass to keep the coasters running at the highest capacity possible, because the goal is short lines. The parks with pay-to-cut could care less if there are three hour waits. It just means more people will see the logic in paying the extra $30 to have the same access.

Sure, there is a fairness factor that kinda sucks about it, but there is also a business end of it kinda sucks too. Far more people are going to feel excluded from pay-to-cut then will benefit from it. Sounds like a sure-fire way to turn a lot of people off from your parks. *** Edited 3/14/2006 9:04:09 PM UTC by rc-madness***

Someone said all these prices were not an issue because most of are skating by on a cheap season pass. They also said it would not be an issue until they went up on the pass prices. As far as I can tell, they have gone up on Season Pass prices at all the parks.

Hey, if higher ticket prices & higher season-pass prices meant CHEAPER in-park food prices, and other little "perks"... I'd be all for a raise in the tickets. Games that don't cost $5.00 a pop (a limit should be $2.00 max charging per game), and food that doesn't cost 2 or 3x the amount you'd get an

But for now, all I can say is that I'll take the wait-n-see for the seasonal parks to open up & show their strut. We're not all made of money, and there are a LOT of families (not just teens & thrill-seekers) that get season passes because it makes for a good summer-day to wind away during those dog-days.

In a way, I hope Six Flags succeeds, but in another way, I hope the fail... only due to the fact that some of these changes are silly & some a little absurd. I just hope that it doesn't go unnoticed by the regular peeps who aren't enthusiasts, BUT are regular visitors to their home park.