Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

You also can't catch a sunburn from other people, so let's not be too ridiculous. No one would mandate that.

Devils advocate... the government does mandate helmets in some areas and seat belts everywhere.

Funny you mention that. Probably 20 years ago I got stopped for no seatbelt. Cop was on a motorcycle. I asked him why he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. He wasn't amused, so I have to wear mine but you can ride a motorcycle. You are much more likely to die than I am if you get creamed.

The seatbelt thing is actually a really good case for mandates. There's a real cost associated with people dying in car accidents, and the science and statistics without question show what a difference they make. To me that's every bit as much of a public health issue.

TheMillenniumRider said:

Funny you mention that. Probably 20 years ago I got stopped for no seatbelt. Cop was on a motorcycle. I asked him why he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. He wasn't amused.

Did you think there would have been a different outcome to this situation?

But I think this is, yet again, another issue of the spectrum of opinion on the personal freedom vs. obligation to the community. In the case of something contagious, I think the obligation to the community mandate is much, much stronger. Like, even though wearing a mask sucks a lot for some and a little for others, the benefit to the community (at this point, given that the pooch has already been royally screwed) outweighs the personal freedom, especially given that the argument for personal freedom tends to revolve around "You can't tell me what to do."

But even when there isn't a direct threat to someone else, I don't think there's a clear cut answer. More often than not, society pays the direct and indirect costs of individual negligence and even though in the ideal there might be a "if you don't wear a helmet, the ambulance doesn't come" clause, that's not how life actually works and so in the absence of that, we mandate wearing a helmet and that seems reasonable to me.

Jeff said:

You also can't catch a sunburn from other people, so let's not be too ridiculous. No one would mandate that.

Dude. Sunblock was your crappy example. That's just my reply.

eightdotthree said:

Devils advocate... the government does mandate helmets in some areas and seat belts everywhere.

I was hoping someone would go there. I think seatbelt and helmet laws are some of the stupidest. Flat out, I never wear a seatbelt...for the same reasons I expressed in the mask/sunblock opine. If I want to die in a through-the-windshield leap of awesomeness, more power to me. My not wearing a seatbelt doesn't kill you.

And I suspect the argument is one of cost and, like Jeff said, public health - but at some point you have to understand there's enough degrees of separation to quit doing the mental gymnastics to make my decisions affect you.

Or more to what Andy is saying above - everything affects everything.

At some point you have to let it go. Don't overthink it. You can't control everything. **** happens.

Wow, you really don’t wear a seatbelt? I thought that was something that everyone did. Hope I’m not getting too personal here, but how does your wife feel about that?

I know it was my crappy example. It wasn't meant to be the foundation for another rabbit hole. 😁

I do think you're pretty ridiculous for not wearing a seatbelt. It's illogical. What do you win for all that power to you for being able to die that way other than "winning" a debate on the Internet?

I would double down on Andy's assertion about the sliding scale but say that it's even bigger because we have this mistaken notion that all of our actions have no effect on others, and f' you if anyway if they do. The latter is just a dick way to live, without empathy, but the former is a problem because there are real impacts on others for what we do. In the example of trying not to reduce the spread of a contagious and sometimes deadly disease, the impact is huge because of the exponential part.

BrettV said:

Did you think there would have been a different outcome to this situation?

No. Not one bit but really just trying to highlight the absurdity of it. Keep in mind that state not only had seat belt laws, but they allowed for no helmets on motorcycles.

As a side note, seatbelt use potentially could cause an increase in poor driving. If you are less likely to be injured you are more apt to engage in risky behavior. There have been studies done and papers published and nothing conclusive has ever been proven.

What a weird world we are living in when the legitimacy and effectiveness of wearing seatbelts while driving are in question. How can we rebuild institutional trust in this country, a necessary building block for solving any real challenges, when we're not on the same page about anything?

In a world where some believe that all opinions have equal value, well, here we are.

I think we should start making the use of restraints on roller coasters voluntary.

I don't think Gonch is questioning the effectiveness of seat belts. He's just saying he doesn't care. And he's wondering why you care that he doesn't care.

Coasterbuzz. Come because you think you'll talk about roller coasters. Stay so you can mark off "In the third decade of the 21st century there are still people trying to debate the effectiveness of seat belts" on your 2020 bingo card.

(And yes, I know that technically the third decade of the 21st century doesn't technically start until next year)

Mad respect for acknowledging that.

This is interesting to me. Basically the next SNL musical guest was engaging in risky behavior, so they canned him. If you work with other humans in person, you are accountable for their well-being.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/morgan-wallen-not-playing-saturday...234796605/

If you work with other humans in person, you are accountable for their well-being.

Ask 10 different people what being accountable means and you likely will get 10 different answers. Maybe not in the instance of the SNL musical act but definitely with a lot of other activities.

I think we should start making the use of restraints on roller coasters voluntary.

At one point, weren't seatbelts optional on coasters? Have a recollection of riding Blue Streak with the old style lapbars and seatbelts that they did not require to be fastened. 8th grade trip comes to mind riding with a classmate who wanted to use the seatbelt though I never did. May be a bad memory circuit though. If it is, Get off my cloud. :)

Bakeman31092 said:

Wow, you really don’t wear a seatbelt? I thought that was something that everyone did. Hope I’m not getting too personal here, but how does your wife feel about that?

Umm, she doesn't either. (as far as I've paid attention)

But my kids do...at least as far as I know. So go figure.

Jeff said:

I do think you're pretty ridiculous for not wearing a seatbelt. It's illogical. What do you win for all that power to you for being able to die that way other than "winning" a debate on the Internet?

Yeah, that's exactly it. You got me. I was playing the long game. I've purposefully not worn a seatbelt my entire life so that when the comparison of seatbelts in a car to masks during an epidemic came up on a internet forum, I could drop the seat belt revelation and yell, "BOOM!"

As far as the win, I'll let you know when I die in a car accident...or don't as the case may be. I guess so far it's a wash.

I'm just sharing. I don't do what you do. Yet, we're both here having the same conversation. I'm guessing there are many paths that lead to similar places, none of them more correct than the other.

Fun said:

What a weird world we are living in when the legitimacy and effectiveness of wearing seatbelts while driving are in question.

OhioStater said:

I don't think Gonch is questioning the effectiveness of seat belts. He's just saying he doesn't care. And he's wondering why you care that he doesn't care.

Yeah, I'm certainly not questioning the effectiveness. By all means, wear your seatbelt, kids.

Or don't. I don't care either way.

If I were a motorcycle guy, I would certainly be a "no helmet" dude. I'd probably ride in just a pair of cut off jeans and flip flops...because, you know, fashion. (That's what Harley guys ride in, right?)

I say it all the time and I'm about to say it again here. I always chuckle because in my long-time real world circles, I'm the "safe" one, but compared to the these forums, I'm practically Charlie Sheen. It's interesting ground and makes me really appreciate the truly wide range of things I get to experience.

I just don't understand always being so worried or literally uttering the phrase that "not wearing a seatbelt is illogical" or trying to always do what's "right" all else be damned. It has to be soooooo tiring. Who thinks about everything that much?

Honestly, being in a serious accident doesn't even blip my radar as something to actively think about. And if it happens, Plan B is airbags. Plan C is live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse.

*shrug*

GoBucks89 said:

At one point, weren't seatbelts missing completely from coasters? Oh, and cars?

Fixed that for you...

Fair point. Though something that is missing isn't optional. I recall when they did add them, seatbelts were optional. The statement (made in jest) about restraints being optional made me think of that.

And on cars, my wife says that when her dad got his first car that had seatbelts, the first thing he did was tuck the seatbelts into the gap between the seat and seatback so you didn't have to sit on them.