SFWoA's Operating schedule changed....
I can appreciate that SF bought the Sea World property... but why the hell would you combine the two parks? Sure, it's a good value proposition to the consumer, but it's not very good for the bottom line? Why would you throw away half of your gate?
And I still don't see what Montrose/Fairlawn has to do with the park. It's not even remotely close to being the same neighbourhood.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
What was GL and SWO attendance before SF took over both. I do believe the most I seen was 1.4 million for GL and 1.5 to 2 for SWO. Now if you add those 2 together I come up with around 3 million guests between the 2. Now last year the parks combined and they still came out with 2.7 million guests only 300 thousand short of 3 million and only 400 thousand away from CP #'s last year and last year was a terrible year with weather.
Now they are 300 thousand short of best year between the 2 parks and last year prob alot stayed away from park because of NO orca whale and bad weather(or is CP the only one thats aloud to use that excuse).
As for attendance we will see who is right this year we know people on this board told us 1.5 million guests and they had people who know tell them that and it was 2.7 million(AB). Dont believe everything you here on the board go back and read how they where having a bad year last year and you will get a good laugh out of it.
Lets wait until AB #'s come out again and we will see whos right
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Army Rangers lead the way
*** This post was edited by supermandl on 6/20/2002. ***
I don't think they had any choice but to combine the parks. They lost the Killer Whales (which would be like Cedar Point losing a couple of coasters) and if I am not mistaken Sea World took some of the dolphins. Had they been two separate gates these past couple of years I am not sure anyone would have gone to the "Sea World" side.
As Walt would say, they need a "weanie" on the Wild Life side of the park, and it sounds like that is the plan with next year's hyper coaster.
I've been seeing many more commercials for SFWoA in the Detroit area than I have ever seen before. Last night I saw one touting the new Orca twice.
I do agree that there are three kinds of peeps....those who only went to the Sea World park, those who only went to GL for the rides, and ones who did both. I did both because it was hard to keep my (then) 8 year old from drooling at the rides across the lake, and we did both in one day.
Older people who don't ride coasters, and people with very young children are more likely to visit the Wildlife side, and losing the dolphin show and the orcas probably had a very big impact.
I don't think it was a bad move to combine the parks. People who would normally have avoided the Sea World park, will now visit that side, and those who would have avoided the ride side will visit that side.
The wildlife side has to be brought back to Sea World standards to bring the sea world peeps back. The ride side has to run a bit more efficiently to bring in mre thrill riders. The ride side has so much more to offer than Geauga Lake had, but the admission price is much higher, so people are going to hold them to a higher standard, especially those who are closer to CP and are used to an efficiently run park.
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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
I wasn't aware that AB published results beyond the top 20, in which case SFWoA would not have been published.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
Magazine published the top 50 parks here is a link to a topic in which its talked about.
http://www.coasterbuzz.com/forums/thread.asp?ForumID=11&TopicID=16913
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Army Rangers lead the way
I too believe that the park felt that it had no choice to run both parks separate since there was no "Samu". Even with the whale attendance was waining in old Sea World. Without would have been miserable. Also remember that the company anounced the purchase by stating that the parks would be run seperately for a while during which future plans would be made.
And even if the park did 2.7 (which it did) that is still quite short of the projected. That park should easily have broken 3. Part of the problem was that there was little to do on the marine side. And there still is little to do on the marine side. Also where is this new restaurant? The park made no capital improvements in the Foods or Retail Departments.
I only question the company for placing the management of a failing park in charge of a new "mega park". The folk at SWO had little knowledge of amusement park operation and it shows even now.
For example, marine parks are run by a show schedule. You know when the rushes are coming and where the crowds will be. It was like clockwork. But at an amusement park people are constantly moving and generally spread out. People don't sit down and eat, or take time to shop as much when they feel that they must keep moving to get everything done. That's why you see Subway trash over by the RWB. They get a snack and keep moving.
CPLady said:
The wildlife side has to be brought back to Sea World standards to bring the sea world peeps back. The ride side has to run a bit more efficiently to bring in mre thrill riders. The ride side has so much more to offer than Geauga Lake had, but the admission price is much higher, so people are going to hold them to a higher standard, especially those who are closer to CP and are used to an efficiently run park.
I think this is WoA's biggest problem right now - when I first heard the news that they were combining the parks I thought it was a terrible idea. Not the idea itself, but the timing. WoA had just gone in, and had enough operational trouble installing 3 major coasters in one year and dealing with the rush of people to ride them and see what SF had done with Geauga lake. I think they should have waited a year or two until they got a service level that rivaled CP, THEN bought Sea World. But not like you can change the past - hopefully you can change the customer service though ...
SWO, on average, always had more guests than GL. I don't know if you can call it failing. They were limited in that they couldn't put rides in, unlike the other SW parks. I saw that 2.7 mil figure in Amusement Business also, but several people told me that figure was wrong. I heard between 1.5 to 1.8 million for SFWoA last year. Based on personal observations on a few visits, I wouldn't argue against those numbers.
I disagree that the SWO management doesn't know park management. I was always impressed with the operations, landscaping, food, employees and shows at Sea World. I thought it was a class act, Busch knows how to run parks. I always had a great day at Sea World, I wish Busch or Cedar Fair would have bought Funtime, instead of Six Flags.
*** This post was edited by Pete on 6/20/2002. ***
IIRC many parks announced shortened op hours for this season, including most of the Disney parks, many of the SF parks, Busch, and didn't Cedar Point and other CF parks also cut their op hours? Due to the economy people are spending less money, and when that happens certain luxuries, like going to parks, often gets cut.
Frankly I don't see what the big fuss is all about. Perhaps I'm missing the bigger picture. Unless this is just another opportunity to bash Six Flags and SFWoA, but it *couldn't* be that, right?
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NUTS - National Union of Thrill Seekers! [Brought to you by the maker of 'LoCoSuMo!']
*** This post was edited by Mamoosh on 6/20/2002. ***
On the busy weekend days SWO was often busier than GLP. But during the last year of GLP operation it was close. (1999) By the conversion SFO passed SWO despite the fuzzy numbers released by BEC.
*** This post was edited by meangene on 6/20/2002. ***
Jeff said: The 13k number came from an employee in another thread. -----------------Oh then it's the truth!
I was there on an early June Saturday, and the place was MOBBED, you could barely Move on the wild life side, and the rides side was no better. I think the answer is elsewhere.
Someone stated that they got ride of New Orleans nights? As far as I know that is still on schedule this year. And last year it was a blast and they had some GREAT entertainment.
As for the whole Montrose/Fairlawn thing. It's not an arguement. It was just a REFERENCE...I could have used LODI or Pittsurgh for that matter as I'm VERY familiar with the business transactions and dealings going on with all those areas. The point was that people a little earlier weren't seeing it through $ signs (which in most cases is the main goal). I just made a reference to businesses "In general" cutting back. No big deal either way and nothing to sit there in deep thought and write down all the comparisons of SFWoA Vs. The World. ;)
"The Future of Roller Coasters"
-RollerCoasteGod
http://OhioThemeParks.com
Someone stated that they got ride of New Orleans nights? As far as I know that is still on schedule this year. And last year it was a blast and they had some GREAT entertainment.
Do you know when it runs? I'm the one who said it was discontinued because it didn't run when I was there in June. Last year, around the same time, they had it running.
I didn't see any advertising for it anywhere in the park. I hope it starts later in the year, I'll probably make another visit to see the whale show. I agree, it was a blast!
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Why do they report power outages on TV?
Pete said:
SWO, on average, always had more guests than GL. I don't know if you can call it failing.
First of all, "on average, always" doesn't make any sense...but I understand where you were going. I would hope that SWO had more guests. Sure a lot of enthusiasts have problems with SF (some also love SF), but for the general public, adding the SF brand should make it more appealing and therefore attendance should go up. If attendance didn't go up, SF should go out of business altogether. Especially when you consider that we, as a society, crave what is the latest and greatest. So if something new opens (in this case, it is like something new opening), then people are going to come, if for nothing else, to see what it's all about.
Even if attendance increases, it could still be considered failing if the increase doesn't meet, or even come close to expecations.
As for someones assessment of people not wanting to go to Sea World if they didn't combine, that is silly. Before they were combined many people went to SW, including people visiting SFO (I can name at least 3 for sure ;-) Many people would have gone to both. But it would have been bad PR to own both and keep them separate as people would have been clamoring "Why don't they just combine the parks, it would be so much cheaper for them and us?"
Happy Coastering!
Sean
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"Have fun stormin' the castle!"
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Jes
Jes's Roller Coasters DJ Jes MCS Please, Feel Free To Call Me Jes!
Six Flags Worlds Of Adventure 2002 Ride-Ops Crew
Teenage Ninja said:
That is alot of people. How crowded are weekdays and do they run any rides at full capacity.
13,000 on a saturday is poor. they should be well above 35,000 on a weekend
While they did make some changes to existing units, they made no significant additions to the foods depatment besides selling out to more vendors.
You see the attendance of WOA has been much less than the agregate attendance of the two seperate parks. If you have no whale at a marine park, people will not go.
Anyway, the park is having issues. And has since last year. Things will continue to get worse before they get better.
Response to several posts.... i'm just combining them all.
1) 13K is horrible, and sadly, true. GLP would do 13k on a BAD weekday. 20k+ on a weekend! SFWoA has hit 20k+ 3 times by my count this year. I get my "Budget/Planning" Sheet every week before i do schedules and i can swear up and down on a stack of bibles that for 3 week's solid now i have been told to staff for a 12,000 total for the day. We're lucky if we even hit that... the rumor inside the park is that they are boosting the numbers b.c. it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like 12k.
2) The problem with the two parks is, without a doubt, two gates. When given the choice between starting on the ride side or the wild life side, everyone chooses rides ["if we get in first we can beat the crowd and ride all the rides first!"]; however, i have found that they just simply do not make it over to the otherside b.c. they get caught up with rides or the water park. Should they make the move to one gate it should be the Wild Life side [us the ride side's lot for more coaster space!!!] to bring the crowds to the animals, since inevitably they will all end up venturing to the rides at soem point in the day. Make them start on the side that needs help, since you know where they're going.
3) Yes, General Management is overall ticked off across the board, as well as Departmental, as well as Full Time, as well as Supervisors... as well as Leads... as well as.... well.. n/m... we're all just bitter!
4) Cut backs have started on top of all of the Operational Hour Cut-Backs. Games went from 150 - 100 overnight. Operations - unknown. Foods - no cut backs yet, but hours have been severaly cut [many stands not opening until there are 14k+ in the park].
- SJS, 2002 Lead
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