SFWoA's Operating schedule changed....

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Where does the 13,000 people in june come from, was that announced or listed on a web site. I remember last year people saying they only did 1.5 or 1.7 million when in fact it was 2.7 million according to AB. Can someone prove that # or are people just throwing out #'s.

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Army Rangers lead the way

The 13k number came from an employee in another thread.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

What ever happed to, "Those who know....bla, bla...". I've also head from an employee that the new hyper will travel underwater. Don't forget your wetsuits next season kiddies!

if no one is staying in your park past 8 why stay open? It'd be like a store staying open until 4 am, sure every now and then they'll get someone buying something, but for the most part you see no one buying anything, costing your store money, when you're not making any money. That is sort of like the situation at SFWoA. If you've ever been to the park on a weekday past 8 try to find a ride that isn't a walk-on.

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Since Jeff made Track Record a "perk" for CB members i'll just post my count here: Coasters:99 Parks:14

13k is perfectly believable to me. I got a good feel for crowd sizes two years ago when a good friend was working in park op at CP. I know what 15k "looks" like, and that would be my first guess for a good day at SFWoA. I've also seen days where I wouldn't count higher than 10k and crowded days around 20k.

I've been wondering what CP big days are attendance wise. Someone asked me the other day and I guessed a huge day is around 50k. Anyone have a relative number for me? I also figured the average day was about 20k. ...just wondering

July and August tend to pack 35k a lot of the time, and some days even more (July 4 comes to mind, and being on at the start of what will be a four-day weekend for most, I don't doubt insanity this year).

CP's average, including every day of the season, I've heard is around 25k, which at 3.3 million visitors per year and 130 operating days almost works out exactly.

I think some of the highest days on record were during Raptor's innaugural year. I've heard figures in the mid-40's and all other big days are compared to 1994. For some reason 44,000 comes to mind.

Trying not to get too of topic, but do parks have a number for how much the average attendant represents as a dollar figure?

Such as, each person who walks through the gates equals $100.

Using my shot in the dark estimate of $100 per head, if CP brings in 30k on a given day, that's 3mill before expenses a day. Would anyone want to guess and say if my number is too high or low?

Maybe WoA should restructure the park sometime soon to bring their expenses closer to their earnings. Cutting hours is one step, albiet a small one. Prehaps they should rearrange the park a bit, downsize the rides even, so they can have a somewhat fresh start. Maybe they can begin to build a stronger customer base if they just step back and take a good look at what they have and what they could have.

Ahh, enough of the ramble, I'm hopieng this isn't a trend.

I think they are too far developed to do that. A fresh start wouldn't happen, their reputation is scarred and they won't get a response unless something drastic happens like the manager coming on during one of their commercials and giving a public apology (don't say it will never happen, Coke did). I am wondering if the return of whales and a new coaster will really do it since it has worked for other parks in the past. I think that is all they really think they can do.

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Off with the trims!
My fellow Americans; Let's Roll!
Woodencoaster.com

Well, based on a grand total of 1 visit to the park, and that being a limited time one, here's a few thoughts and suggestions.

It definately sounds like a budget crunch to me. When you start adding in all the workers that would not be working those hours, the extra wear and tear that is saved (translate maintaince costs), the fireworks (at least $10k a night for a 15 minute show), you start talking about some serious money that they are mananging to save. And especially if the park is pretty empty at that point anyways, it's probably pretty easy to figure they're going to save a lot more than they would make.

While in some cases overstaffing a place can help it make a turn around, I don't know if that would help here.

One thing that would definately help is if they played up the old Sea World side, and made it more accessible from the rides side. 2 very long sidewalks and a ferry just don't provide a lot of transportation over. Something like a skyflight accross the lake providing continuous transportation accross would be a huge plus in getting people back and forth.

I would guess that the 13k peeps number is a bit suspicious though. I don't know to many parks that allow the numbers to get out, not even to employees, so there's no telling how accurate that number really is. But on the Tuesday that I was there when school was back in session they had fairly decent crowds. Shortest lines were 4-5 train waits, and there were several in the 30-60 minute range. I think it's more getting peeps to frequent the sea world side and spend more money there that would help the park as a whole.

That and some touching up to make it look nicer. I was shocked at how many spots had obviously not been painted over the winter and how the sidewalks could have definately used a good powerscrub.

edit- oh, and if you want to keep people in at night and spending money, then you need something that is only there at night to keep them there. Hence the whole reason that they brought back the electric light parade to Disney Calif. Adventure- to give people a reason to stick around. Something a little more than fireworks.

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Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down.
But with God, life is one thrill ride that you'll never regret being on.

*** This post was edited by Sir Willow on 6/19/2002. ***

I am surprised they didnt structure this closing time before the season started.

SFGAm has scaled their hours back to close at 9 everynight until July which then it stays open till 10. They also have something starting in July that helps keep families there until closing and that is a Looney Tunes parade and fireworks show which starts at 9 every night during the summer.

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""To be the man, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!, You got to beat the man""!!!

Ride said:

Trying not to get too of topic, but do parks have a number for how much the average attendant represents as a dollar figure?

The 2001 Cedar Fair report said $34 in per capita spending. Obviously it will be higher number for Cedar Point and lower for MIA. I would guess that CP brings in close to $45 per head.

Ride said:

Using my shot in the dark estimate of $100 per head, if CP brings in 30k on a given day, that's 3mill before expenses a day. Would anyone want to guess and say if my number is too high or low?
Maybe WoA should restructure the park sometime soon to bring their expenses closer to their earnings. Cutting hours is one step, albiet a small one. Prehaps they should rearrange the park a bit, downsize the rides even, so they can have a somewhat fresh start. Maybe they can begin to build a stronger customer base if they just step back and take a good look at what they have and what they could have.

You are on the right track with each person representing a specific dollar amount, but you are forgetting the fact that a person walking through the gate does not automatically equal this dollar amount. A park's per capita figures are composed of every cent the guest spends in the park - parking, admission, food, games, souvenirs, etc. These things add up over the course of the entire visit, not as soon as the guest walks through the gate. While SFWOA might be saving some money by closing the park early mainly in employee wages and electricity, they are losing SOME of that money in lost souvenir, game, and food sales that would have occured during that extra hour.

As a guest, I've just had my time in the park cut back by an hour, do you still think I am going to spend time wandering around their gift shops when I could be riding? They've made my day a lot less liesurely and much more of a "push" to get everything done. I don't have time to relax, shop, and play games at the end of the night like I might have if the park stayed open later.

In addition to the obvious loss of an hour, they have also cut staffing in several areas meaning that the employees left are going to have to pick up the slack (or else quality of service will go down). Some of them might not be happy about doing this. This negativity will most likely end up being passed along to the guests and any positive momentum the park had gained this year (I've see a few decent TRs) might be down the drain. I think SF is being very shortsighted in this whole ordeal to be honest. I talked to an employee over there and from what he said, people are not happy. He made it seem like orders were coming down from higher powers and the people actually at the park had very little control over the situation. Whether that is true or not, it is a shame that whever is causing these things to heppen is so shortsighted. Even if they get their budget on track for this season, they risk having a much weakened customer base for the future.

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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

Jeff said:

I got a good feel for crowd sizes two years ago when a good friend was working in park op at CP. I know what 15k "looks" like, and that would be my first guess for a good day at SFWoA. I've also seen days where I wouldn't count higher than 10k and crowded days around 20k.

it's hard to say what 15k looks like at sfwoa compared to what 15k looks like at cp. both park are laid out totally different and have different ride offerings in different sections which also determine how the crowds spread out.
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seek first to understand
then to be understood

It's hard to tell guests that the park closes at 9:00. They don't believe me!

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Jes
Jes's Roller Coasters DJ Jes MCS Please, Feel Free To Call Me Jes!
Six Flags Worlds Of Adventure 2002 Ride-Ops Crew

GLP ran June days at about 10 to 13k. SFO at about 15k. Last year the park ran june with 20k or more while the curiosity was still there. Then July was a bad weather month, and the company cut all spending. And i mean all spending. For WOA last year it was rough to guess. If it was jam packed on the ride side the marine was often empty so when you look at a crowd that felt like 20 thousand on the old ride side, then the park attendance was often 20 thousand.

For busy days, GLP often maxed out at 20 thousand (same for SWO), but both parks were known to reach the mid 20's and on one rare occation GLP even broke 30! Last year 40 was broken at least a couple of times (mostly on CCF days). SFO regularly did over 30.

My reports tell me that the park hasn't broken 20 yet!!!!! Never has it been that bad.

SF's relentless effort to reduce the COG will be the demise of the company. And the merger looks to be the demise of a once decent park.

Pete- As to answer your question about Akron area businesses and Montrose having to do with SFWoA. Most businesses are getting ready to change over into the new fiscal. This past one for most has been slow for as we all know, pretty obvious reasons. Of course SF is an area business too. They like all businesses want to make thier budget and have a check in the plus area. Most businesses around here a squeezing every cent they can get (And I mean from weird things they don't usually do on average). In SF case sending people home when it rains (though MA does it all the time when it rains and even if it's 60' or colder). Either way like all jobs they are trying to make a profit.

As for those whoe say the Wild Life side has nothing to offer and looks lousy this year. What park did you go too? SF pumped MUCHO $$$$ over there this past year and looks to BIG TIME push it next year. The landscaping over there is AWESOME this year (to most who don't know, it takes a BIG staff to keep things primed a lot of flowers don't get there on their own). I give the landscaping crew an A+ this year. I took a good 1000 pics over there this year so far and everywhere you look it's landscape.

As for the "no one's over there feel." The park is working on that and I totally believe next year it will be different...maybe even this year. They are building/moving the/a boardwalk on the other side of the lake from what it looks like right now, so it will be FULL loop. They are adding rides to the Wild Life Side as we speak/type (which you have to admit (so far) they are doing a pretty good job. They are adding a coaster. One AWESOME restaurant. New Whale(s) are coming and one is their. Dolphins look great in their new home. As for why you can't touch them: They are trying to control the enviornment as much as they can in their new/old home while they can (expecially with all the animal rights people watching them right now...and for ever.) They added the Stunt Show last year...which many of "normal peeps" love.

Though we might not understand everything the park does right now. From talking to the new management, I actually do have faith in them and their merging and growing process.

"The Future of Roller Coasters"
-RollerCoasterGod
http://OhioThemeParks.com

Well, all I know is that if the current full-time employees under SFWoA's managment don't have confidence in their bosses, I am not sure why we should. How many rides are NOT in operation this year? Sure, coaster lines will be 60 minute waits if they aren't operating at full capacity (ie all the trains on the track).

It is going to get worse before it gets better.

Pete said:
SF shot themselves in the foot by making both parks a single gate. The former Sea World fans think that SFWoA is all about rides and are not coming to the park.

*** This post was edited by Pete on 6/18/2002. ***

Why did they turn both parks into one. There is no way to do both halfs in one day. They should go back to the old way, two parks, two gates, two days of fun. I think that people may be flocking to The Point because of the new WT. When SF gets the new hyper, attendance will improve.

13,000, that's bad. CP parks that many cars. Get out to SF and help em out. I love CP, but SF is a great park too. The more parks, the more coasters, the more fun!

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The worst day at Cedar Point is better than the best day at work.

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