Scenarios Really Easy?

Admittedly the scenarios is the first two games were pretty darn easy. RCT1 moreso than RCT2.

I'd messed with Vanilla Hills a bit and the Box Office one for a little longer. Then I installed the patch last night and decided that it fixed enough to make playing scenarios reasonable. I started a new career and off I went. In less than 3 hours I had blown through the first 3. Then this afternoon I sat back down and blew threw 4 & 5 in under two hours.

Keep in mind I do use the patented Gonchar "gueriila style" where speed is everything (level the park, build fast, ugly and cheap using as many prebuilts as possible) - and I do see how being able to speed up time makes things go much quicker. But even still I'm not even getting to the end of year two on these and in the case of Fright Night, I had the Tycoon Level goals covered by August of Year 1. The ability to pause and build covers that, I suppose.

I used a few "tricks" to get it so quick, but still I used no cheats, trainers or whatnot. I won't get into details, but if you'd take a look at the saved game (saved right after the "true tycoon" message popped up) you'd find a park with just two coasters in it.

I'm not sure what my point is. Is anyone finding it this easy? Does anyone find it weird that you can complete three levels of difficulty and at the end have a clear map with just 2 coasters (only one open) sitting on it? Did the Frontier guys test or play this game at all?

EDIT - typing too fast :)

*** Edited 11/4/2004 8:10:32 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Agreed. But with the market they aimed at I don't think scenarios were the bigest issue.

Having steadily watched the decline of RCT2 people weren't doing anything other than building fantasy parks.

Having said that I know people playing the game who find the scenarios difficult.

After you've played the RCT2 scenarios to death, with practically the same gameplay you can't expect to make it harder just for the really experienced player.

I still know people who can't make a working family in the sims, people who can't complete Doom3 and people who can't build a non continuous circuit coaster in RCT2. :)

It depends on the scenario. I personally found exactly the same issues, and blew through most of them quickly.

I did however have problems on two. The first was the Go With The Flow scenario. I wanted to build two nice coasters, but couldn't make any money to make the second. This was pre-patch, so the peeps weren't riding anything. Even now, peeps do more standing around than anything.

The second was in Broom Lake, as you may have seen in my bug reports. When you build stuff in the back of the park, the peeps never go there, regardless of what you build, or how you price it, even with free maps. Heck, they mostly just loiter near the entrance. Then when they leave they loiter outside of it and never leave the map. Took me a total of three game years before the VIP would leave the map each time. I got the "VIP is going home" alert hundreds of times, and since the little bastard was outside the gate, I couldn't pick him up and help him.

With the gameplay so screwed up, it's no wonder that the scenarios totally lack balance.

I, personally, like the scenarios in this version. I was turned off by the scenarios in RCT1/2 because they were either too hard or goals/restrictions too ridiculous and discouraging.

This game it seems like the scenarios can be as easy or as hard as you want to make it which makes for great flexibility. If you think it's too easy then try building parks without using the pre-fabs or add your own park rating/park value goals beyond what the game requires.

Or if you liked the ridiculous scenarios in RCT1/2 then make yourself not remove trees, modify land, or restrict ride heights.

I hated the scenario play in RCT1/2, but for some reason I'm addicted to it in RCT3. It took me a few hours to reach tycoon level in the first scenario either because I'm a novice or I took too much time micromanaging and paying attention too much attention to ride/scenary detail trying to make a great park.

Some were easy and some were impossible before the patch.

Now the easy ones are still easy and impossible should be possible.

Somehow yesterday (Before the patch, so its wasnt that) I somehow lost my saved career, so Im trying to blow back through the easy ones I got through.

Ok, then these scenarios are just completely vulnerable to the guerilla-style attack.

I just did Go With The Flow and had no challenge whatsoever.

Level the park and you end up with $38,000+ to begin with. Plop down every thrill, junior and gentle ride along with a prebuilt Dinghy Slide and a few stalls. Set research to $500 and turn all the sliders down except for thrill rides & roller coasters - slide those all the way up. Take the game off of pause and into Super Fast Forward. Wait a few moments until you complete the first goals. Hit pause again.

During that time you will have gotten a few more rides. Add a prebuilt vertical drop and a couple of the new thrill rides. You're already over the second set of goals park value so this is just padding the ticket sales. Go back to research and turn the thrill rides off hit Super Fast Forward and wait again. As soon as you receive the lay down coaster, hit pause - go back into research and set the amount to $0 to turn it off, you have all you need. Hit Super Fast Forward again and wait until you meet the second set of goals. Pause the game again.

By now you should have the ticket sales you need to meet the tycoon goals and be hovering just about the park value goal. Download my "Ranchero De Flio" coaster and drop it in. (you may need to take a bit of the loan for this - I needed $10000 of the available $20000) Charge $8 or $9 a ride for this coaster, hit Super Fast Forward and wait.

You'll beat the scenario in approximately 3 more months of game time.

Here's a screen taken just after completing it on April 24 of Year 2 - selling between $1000 and $1300 in ride tickets (only needed $300) and with a park value of $70,504 (only need to sustain $60,000 for three months)

The problems with the goals in this game are that they don't take quality into consideration at all. Look at the top of that screenshot - the park rating was only 178 and there were just 617 people in the park. This is exactly why the guerilla approach destroys these scenarios.

In RCT1 & RCT2, you had goals like # of guests, park rating and such. Things that demanded a well built & maintained park. RCT3 demands no quality at all - just mindless dropping of rides and jacking up of prices to build more rides.

It's funny how the original concept for this game seemed to be more traditional sim than leisurely creative tool (the Mega Park sandbox was the reward for completing all scenarios, you had to terraform makeshift structures, etc) it was a simulation first and the creative sandbox style of play was a reward to keep it interesting after you completed it. Then RCT2 came and the scenarios got a hair tougher, but there was WAY more freedom in just playing around with the included scenario editor.

Somehow the game has gone from one end of the spectrum to the complete other end with RCT3 - the simulation/strategy/management aspects of the game are an afterthought to designing an open ended creative tool meant as an open-ended time killer. To me this version, while still a great deal of fun, is as far from the original concept of the game as it can get. If you're a scenario, goal oriented, sim-style fan I'm not sure this game has anything to offer. This was made for the megapark fantasy builders who prefer style over substance.

Funny the way the series has evolved.

*** Edited 11/5/2004 7:48:48 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Ok, just finished the Broom Lake one. You're right about the V.I.P. just circling outside the park.

It seems to push him along much sooner if after he leaves and you start getting the repeated messages that he's leaving - delete the first pathway sqaure inside your park (the one that connects to the entrance piece)

For some reason that made him move along. He'd circle once or twice more and be gone. Anyone care to test it?

It was the first scenario to take me into Year 3 in game time - completed March 31, Year 3.

I'm thinking I can blow through all of these in the next day or two if it keeps up at this pace.

See, I like the big pretty buildings. I don't want to level them just for the sake of beating the scenario. :) I knew you were going to suggest that too.

Yeah, I know a lot of you guys like to make the scenario parks stay pretty. That's where the sandbox comes in for me.

The scenarios have set goals, anything stopping me from achieving the goal, or that can be sacrificed to help me get there is fair game. Maybe it's thinking outside the box, maybe it feels like adding self imposed limitations to leave everything intact - who knows?

The whole leveling the park thing started for me way back with the first game mostly because I hated the non-sensical layouts in many of the parks. I'd just kill everything and do it MY way. It wasn't long before I figured out the financial advantages.

I've just done it that way ever since.

Ok, I take that back. I probably won't knock thses out this weekend. Valley Of The Kings (scenario 8) keeps taking the game down on me. I have 3 coasters and a full compliment of flats and when I load the game it runs for maybe 5 seconds and crashes back to the desktop with the rct3.exe error.

Getting old fast. What's the point if they game can't handle a lot going on?

I really want to like this game...really.

I haven't even looked at the box in the store and I hate it already ;) Thanks to all you guys for being my guinea pigs, you saved me $40!

Do you notice if you get an Rct.exe error when you try to move the camera too fast across the park.

Last night I got my first Rct.exe error while working in one of the scenarios. I was focused on a ride at one end of my park when I quickly scroll-wheel zoomed out a little and right-click dragged my view to a ride at the other end of the park. About halfway across the map the game froze and the Rct.exe error popped up.

No, it happens for me when I'm perfectly still. Even tried focusing on bare ground so that there wouldn't be a lot of graphics processing going on.

Still goes down.

---

Lord Gonchar said:

I had the Tycoon Level goals covered by August of Year 1.

---

I did the first scenario today too, and I too was done by August. Kinda sad if you ask me, we'll see how the others do.

I think you are looking at it too basically Gonch.

If you want to complete the scenarios no matter what and aren't interested in the graphics or the pretty "style" why not sit down with a text based adventure game.

The scenarios are no easier or harder than the first two. You've just played for so long that you know how to do the simple things to complete what is required.

If your excuse is that they haven't developed the scenarios any more, I think it wasn't something that anyone complained about in RCT2. Amongst the "I want a rocket coaster" and "I want better flats" I don't think there were many "I want harder scenarios".

I disagree with what you say about the way the series has changed. I think you've just wanted to get something out of the game that isn't there.

If you only wanted the game for the scenarios and not for the design tool aspect, why have you spent so long making rides and uploading them? Not all of them are useful for scenario play. In fact any fancy coaster design at all isn't useful for scenario play.

Whilst completing the scenarios you've done have you build fancy looping coasters and done any designing, or just plonked pre-built rides? If you have just plonked them, I don't understand where you are getting the fun from in the game.

I started out playing the scenarios pretty casually and trying to stick with custom work only. Many of the pre-fabs are too expensive to plop down in the early scenarios anyway.

I sailed through the first couple scenarios and then it started getting on my nerves. Especially with the box office scenario I found NO way to generate enough income to build an "excitement 7.0" ride. I had to go against my personal gameplay rules and I sold the Studio Tour.

So now my total gameplay mission has changed and I'm out for blood. I've been using "guerilla" style tactics trying to fly through these scenarios just to see what's behind the locked scenarios. I've been eliminating every piece of scenary that gives me money and dropping down tiny, affordable coasters that aren't even worth the $10 ride fee.

As soon as I'm happy unlocking everything, I may go back to some of my favorite scenarios and be more play friendly. It would very cool if you could open the scenario maps in sandbox mode. I really like some of those maps and wish I had more money during scenario play to make them huge.

Ross, it's all about the challenge, the goals. Meeting the goals as efficiently as possible is just as fun to me as prettying up a coaster or fantasy park an uploading it.

Maybe it's just my efficient mindset at work. I'm like that in everything. I don't see the point of making things harder than they need to be. If I'm asked to dig a swimming pool sized hole in the genral shape of a square, I'm not going to use a garden spade and make sure the edges are perfectly square. Instead I'll get a backhoe and have it done in a hour. Same mindset goes into scenario play for me.

In later scenarios you do have to theme to specific themes for the V.I.P. and when that's asked, I do it. But if the goal is just X number of dollars or X park value, why waste the time.

I see the scenarios as a challenge for me to meet. In succession they make for a nice little game to complete. My focus is to complete that game. If I want pretty I go to sandbox mode and dazzle the masses ;)

The problem is the goal in the scenarios don't rely on each other from Apprentice, Entrepeneur and Tycoon levels. For example, the worst offender I found so far is the Island Hopper scenario. I had it by July of Year 1 - here's the trick to jumping through the gaping holes in this one:

1. Apprentice level goal: 1 coaster that is less than 51mph max speed and more than 1017 feet long.

Simple enough - the prebuilt reverser coaster called "Side Spliter" (yes, it's spelled wrong in the game) meets this for only $4000+, you start the scenario with $10,000 (all of it loan money)

Just drop this coaster in, hit test and you've met the goal.

2. Entrepeneur level goal: 2 coasters meeting the same requirements and to repay the loan.

Delete the Side Spliter. Add a slide. Charge $3 a head and run it to make a few hundred bucks (to cover the operating costs of the park) Delete it. pay off the loan. 1 objective down. Raise the loan back to $9,000 Drop in two "Side Slpiter" coasters. Hit test. You've met the second goal.

3. Tycoon level: Gee, gues what this goal is? 3 coasters that meet the same requirements. Up the loan to $14,000, drop the "Side Spliter" and hit test. All scenario goals competed.

You know what, Ross? You're right. That's not fun.

Name me one scenario in the first two games that had such gaping holes in their execution? There weren't any.

Why? The game itself was more balanced and on top of the scenario goals were too. Things like X number of guests within a certain time. Or park rating goals. Things that were based on solid park building and play. On top of that the gameplay was more balanced making those goals reasonable. The Island Hopper scenario is the worst offender of how poorly thought out the scenarios in this one were. Why give that much money? Why set the requirements so low? Why not have the loan goal be taken away if you pull money back out? Why included a cheap, easy to add coaster type so early in the scenario? It reeks of "We have no idea how this game works"

I don't use cheats or anything like that, I just exploit the giant holes in the game. If the block brakes, train limits, stupid peeps, etc are all viable complaints, then why isn't poor scenario execution? Why in this case do I have to self impose limits to make it playable?

As far as the series and how it's changed. I still think I'm dead on. The first had no sandbox until you beat the game. It was a goal oriented sim in every aspect. Once you completed all the goals, you got a big sandbox park to keep the game interesting. The megapark was an afterthought in RCT1.

Then people complained that they didn't like meeting goals and wanted the sandbox from the start. This was the beginning of the change. They added the scenario editor which made sandbox creation very easy, but left the scenarios. This time there was no reward for the scenarios. You could play them if you wanted or you could just use the game as a creation tool.

This time around everything points to making a tool to create pretty little landscapes based on amusement parks. Hell, they included tons of wanderful 3D elements to do so, but couldn't even made rides run correctly. The rides themselves almost seems like afterthough to cramming as much pretty into the box as they could. The game itself, the scenarios, are just a side diversion that were given even less thought than the roller coaster operation.

I see the scenarios as the true 'game' - the challenge that's in the box. Everything else is just time killer material. Unfortunately RCT3 is just time killer material, I'm still not sure I've found any 'game' in this box at all. I seemingly bought a fun little tool for creating fantasy parks and rides. Imagine my surprise as someone who's always played the scenarios first, built pretty crap second. :)

*** Edited 11/8/2004 7:45:54 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Sorry to double post, but I didn't want the answer Greg was looking for to get lost in the response to Ross :)

Greg, you can load the scenario parks into the sandbox. Here's how:

We'll use vanilla hills for the example. I'm assuming you saved your progress somewhere along the line in that one.

In you 'My Documents' folder find the folder named "RCT3" - open it.

In that folder find the one called "Campaigns" - open it.

In there you'll have folders called "Campaign 0000", "Campaign 0001", etc. Each one corresponds to each carrer you've started in the game. If you've only started one, there's only one folder. The only thing this is relevant for is to make sure you're choosing from the correct career that you want to.

In the Campaign XXXX folder you choose to open, you'll find folders for "Scenario 01", "Scenario 02", etc - they correspond to the scenarios in order. Vanilla Hill lives in the Scenario 01 folder so open it.

In there will be a .dat file named whatever you decided to name your saved game on that level (the defauly is "My Game") - copy that file.

Not go back to the My Documents/RCT3 folder. Inside there is a folder called "Parks" - open it and paste your Vanilla Hills saved game in there.

Now start the game, go into sandbox mode and load up your Vanilla Hills saved game.

Obviously this works for any scenario saved game you have.

Fair response. ;)

I still think there are better games out there for those sort of challenges and I think from early on you could see that RCT2 was being used as a design tool by the masses.

The only reason I questioned most of the above is because you seem like you are suprised with how the game has turned out.

I think even if there weren't such huge holes in the gameplay and the scenarios were at the same difficulty level as those in 1 & 2, you would still be going through them quickly albeit not within a few minutes of gameplay. :)

I still know plenty of people who are finding the scenarios very difficult in RCT3 though.

I'm still enjoying making pretty parks in sandbox at the moment!

There are plenty of very hard management simulators out there that aren't aimed at the graphic happy younger "gamer" generation.

Perhaps you should try them :)

:)

I have tried a few. Gaming isn't one of my big leisure activities since I had kids. My faves are still simulations and role playing.

The thing with RCT is that it's a sim and an amusement park game. It doesn't get much better than that in my little world.

Yeah, you could meet the goals in 1 & 2 releatively easily, but most had a time attached and played to end end of that time. You either won or lost at that point. It forced you to nurture a park beyond meeting the goal even if the goal itself was a fairly easy one and if you didn't, a previously met goal could be lost by the end. RCT3 has the open ended scenarios - no win/lose, just play until you do some stuff then move on. It feels so loose and unstructured. (should I start goosestepping around the house now? ;) )

I still really like making the fantasy stuff too. There's no denying that. In that aspect, the game is wonderful. (Minus the few bugs that are still floating out there)

At the current trend pace, what will RCT4 bring? A non-playable graphics placement tool? Might be time to hang it up then. :)