Report says ride ops did not secure Six Flags New England victim

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Yes Jeff, if you tried to wear pants 11 inches to large you could get out easily, but the belt could be 50 feet too long and if it were properly adjusted it would fit perfectly.

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True... but you also introduce another variable into the equation and leave something open to interpretation or human responsibility. Obviously someone could just open it mid-ride, but every bit helps.

I know i'm a little late to post, and this is a close-minded statement, but how about we make a rule that if your too fat to ride, you can't! Thats the way the cookie crumbles, life isn't fair, and I am sick of the .1% of dumb people who inconvenience the 99.9% of the people in this world who use their brains. Because the dumb .1% is too selfish to say "I can't ride this, it isn't safe for my body type," or is too ignorant to think "Its not important enough to me to make this a pain in the ass for everyone else."

I have ridden roller coasters all over the world, I am not overweight, and have survived hundreds of rides, as well as millions of others. ROLLER COASTERS ARE SAFE IF YOU FOLLOW SAFETY RULES AND RIDE THEM PROPERLY. These people that die on coasters, are not. It is also self responsibility. I don't care what park i'm at, i make sure my ass is securely in that seat, and my lap barand belt are securely locked before dispatch- i don't trust any 16 year old kid to check me properly. If i was overweight, or disabled, whether it was my fault or not, i would just have to accept the fact that it is something i will not be able to do.

Intamin has a right to be pissed. We don't need to change the design of the restraints, we need to change the pansy attitudes of the parks who allow overweight/disabled people to ride instead of growing some balls and saying "Sorry sir, we cannot allow you to ride, if you get on you are risking death."

I'm a Professional Civil Engineer, a coaster fan, and an expert in Transportation. I've ridden 740+ coasters, and have been on SROS @ SFNE about 120 times, and other Intamin Hyper/Giga coasters countless hundreds of times.

I also happen to be 5'11" and 290 lbs, so, needless to say, I could write a book on this subject - only difficulty would be where to start ranting & raving!

However, I'll take the high road and just post this food for thought:

After all mods to the Supermen & other Intamins, someone will still fall out. Next they will slow the chain. Someone will still fall out. (I'll say SWSFO for short...) Next they'll lower the lift hill - train will barely crawl back to station - SWSFO. Train will roll back, get hit by another train, lift hill will be raised two feet, over-the-shoulder restraints will be added - SWSFO. Back to original T-bar, but now each car will have a plexiglass or wire cage around it (these DO already exist, people). SWSFO - but now they just break their neck against the "ceiling". Back to overhead restraints, plus the cage, plus padding all-around, and a video monitor to see what's outside. Someone will have a heart attack on the ride that they would have had on their couch that day anyway, and the ride will finally be closed.

One answer I want out of all this - who ever said we are guaranteed to NOT die doing anything in particular? Why can't we decide to take on SOME risk riding a coaster, just like we do (to a MUCH higher degree) when skiing or sky diving???

EVERY coaster accident gets major coverage - if we did this with automobiles - we wouldn't have enough channels for 24-7-365 coverage.

Not trying to argue, because your point about adding another variable is valid, but what about the difference in girth between a 10 year old 54" tall 65 pound kid and a 5'7" 195 pound man. At the very least you have an 11" difference in size, so do we make coasters only fit 195 pound 5'7" men and nobody else can ride or do we have an adjustable belt and bar system to accomadate a variety of riders. (as we have now)

If anything make the bars ratcheting and make them not lock if the rider is larger than a certain size therefore there would be no argument, you either fit or you don't. I know that is simplistic but no more so than saying that an adjustable belt is too complicated.

Just my 2 cents worth, not an argument or slam.

All you "rider just too damn big" people, please consider this:

Magnum XL-200 generates some of the most forceful airtime I have ever felt on a roller coaster.

The seat belts on Magnum XL-200 are attached to the train at the seat cushion, and are, I swear, about five feet long. Fully extended and fastened, the belts can almost touch the floor of the car.

Oversize riders ride that coaster on every day of the operating season.

Since 1989, I think I have met *one* person who can't ride Magnum because he doesn't fit...and his problem is that his legs are too long.

And the coaster has never had an incident (knock on plexiglass...twice, of course :) ). Big people ride this coaster, AND THEY COME BACK EVERY TIME.

Do you ever wonder about that? Could it be because the seat is deeper, and the lap bar extends back past the leading edge of the seat, so that a vertical exit is just about impossible?

Ever think that perhaps "rider too big" is a too simplistic explanation, and that with some minor modifications to the seating area, the Intamin coasters would be safe for riders of just about any size, as is apparently the case for the Arrow coasters?

It's something to think about, anyway...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I think a shield over the trains wheels might have prevented this too. No way he comes out of that train if his hand doesn't get yanked under it. His shoe and sock ripped off! So many possibilities, but sadly I think this is really a truly one of a kind incident that you probably couldn't replicate in a million rides. So many variables!

could it also be that the man's legs were just too thin and weak to really help hold him in under the T-bar??

sometimes, people who use a scooter or wheelchair as their primary means of transportation can experience atrophy of the muscles. basically, its "use it or lose it".

so if this man had atrophy of the muscles in his lags, it stands to reason that he wouldnt have the strength to support himself properly during the ride.

not saying the ride-op or the restraint wasnt partially at fault, but unless you are a trained physical therapist, you probably wouldnt notice anything like muscular atrophy...

and i cant help but wonder, as someone with a slight disability...what will this do to those of us who ARE disabled and want to ride?? will we now be turned away because we might be percieved as "too disasbled"??

of course, my riding days are almost over due to my MS progressing, but i want to get in every ride i can before it forces me to stop altogether. it would really upset me if that was brought about early due to fear and the desire to be completely safe, even if it means denying rides to anyone who is not completely healthy and thin.

that would make lines a lot shorter, as probably HALF of this country is made up of people who are NOT perfectly healthy and thin...

wahoo started this thread with:

"I am not there so it isn't too fair to judge but I have to sympathize with the victim's family who wondered how it was possible the ride operators didn't know the man had a disability. He comes to the ride through a handicapped entrance in a scooter. So, what am I missing?"

I say to wahoo. Where is your sensitivity? Do you not see that what you are advocating is hadicapped profiling. What can of vulgar ogre are you? Profiling is bad, don't you know?

...sarcasm intended

As a former ride operator for a few months, I can't imagine how the attendant must feel. No one really talked about it, but I definitely always had that "What if?" mentality going on in my head. Make no doubt about it, these are heavy machines. I had a bad scare on my 2nd to last day (coincidentally, the night the two trains on S:ROS at SFA almost collided, so I was quite distracted thinking about the "What if?"). A kid came up to me and said that I didn't close down his sisters harness on a Chance Chaos, after the ride was over. Luckily, there is a backup upside-down T-shaped device that locks down over the harness. I've played that scene over in my head many times, and I've tried to figure out what went wrong. We had several seats out of order that night (imagine that), so I was trying to fill as many seats as possible. It's very possible that I let them in, and didn't get back around to checking their seats. It's also possible due to the backup device, that they pulled down the upside-down T-bar down (which locks), without her pulling down her OTSR, and since it was dark, I might not have noticed the non-closed OTSR. For some reason, people didn't get the concept of the restraint design on the Chaos. I actually had two grown women who manged to sit on top of the OTSR's, and closed down the backup device overtop (they weren't the only ones). This could've resulted in serious injury or death, as the computer wouldn't have noticed the difference.

The bottom line is after that night (I only had the end of the season day left), that I would never become a ride op again. I don't think I could deal with the responsibility and sadness that a death would entail. I don't know what happens in that situation. Does the park hire greath counsolers? It's easy to say "Just fire the operator", but man, what a heavy burden on the person implicated.

I'm getting in here a little late, but I can't help but share my experience.

Compared to the victim, I am much more severely disabled. I use an electric wheelchair, have little or no upper body strength, and require my brother to lift me and fasten whatever restraining supports there are. He will even try to hold me during the ride.

I still enjoy riding whatever I can (Beast, Kumba, almost all WDW rides) and understand the risk I am taking every time. My family understands this also; that even in the worst case scenario that they are NOT to attempt to blame any park or manufacturer in any way. It has been a major fight in the disabled community to have the right to decide what we can/can't ride, and very few understand the personal pain it causes when some park has policies that tell you what you can't enjoy.

CP had this prevention policy for all visible disabilities until the last couple of years. It was finally rescinded and I was able to go on the MF as my very first ride upon entering the park. It was my first experience with the T-bar/seatbelt combo, and the openness was a little scary... I didn't know what to expect, but my brother reassured me that there are no major negative G's so we pushed the bar as best as possible against me and tightened the seatbelt. It was the scariest ride I ever took... the zero G's over the later hills sent me way-way out of my seat. My brother attempted to push me down the best he could, but there is no way to do so. I was mostly worried about sharper hills near the end of the ride, but thankfully those never came... thankfully as well, I never came down wrong in the seat so it didn't cause any pain either. I truly believe that had some negative G hills existed, I would have come free from the car. I certainly would have thought that the restraint & seatbelt combo would have been secure enough, but I realized about 45 seconds into the ride that it wasn't.

Whose fault would this have been had a similar accident occurred with me? Certainly not the ride operators... I know my body and tolerances, and I HAD NO IDEA this could have occurred. My body shape prevented the T-bar from holding my legs... it hit in my stomach, but certainly I thought the seatbelt would have been enough... perhaps with the T-bar restraint the operators need to check that it does indeed hit the legs, and stop anyone whose body prevents that. But, even still, it was my choice to ride and I would want to take responsibility for choosing to do so...

I am a large individual. 6ft., 50" chest,thick thighs,etc. I have been a weight lifter since teen years. Although not often denied rides,I find them very tight at times. The basic thinking in the design of these rides is flawed. I am tired of these rides being geared toward teenagers and pencil-necks. The ride cars should scrapped and redesigned...if you can drive a car and fit behind the wheel you should be able to fit in a ride.(I drive a very small import and fit VERY comfortably)Larger seats with more advanced restraints that quickly adjust to riders size are needed. Designers need to move into the 21st century.