Report says ride ops did not secure Six Flags New England victim

I don't know why this hits me so hard. I can't even push myself to comment about this. As a former ride opp, I feel that this death could have easily been prevented. That said, I can't help but feel simpathy for the ride opps, the witnesses, as well as the victim (yes, I said victim).

One crucial step was overlooked by the ride opps. One thing I did when running a coaster was to scan every seat as the train pulled out of the station. Other ride opps should have been watching also. What about the opp who pushes the button? Or the opps who were checking other lapbars? Over checking sounds redundant, but safety is the most importaint aspect of working as a ride opperator. I can not even imagine the shame they feel. My opinion is that most of the fault should be placed on the ride opps, with understanding that it is a complex job that takes a lot of focus.

The poor lady who tried to help hold the victim in durring the ride has the majority of my concern. Just imagine how disturbing this incedent is to her?

I cannot comment anymore due to tears.

Okay...I've pulled myself together to say one more thing. I am thinking that maybe he didn't have the arm strength to pull his own lapbar down - or to hold himself in when he descovered that he was in danger. On the other hand, a buddy/ex-co-worker of mine has CP and has ridden MF hundreds of times, but his disability wasn't as extreme as others I have seen.

Intense sadness I feel for all involved.

Figaro and Marcus Sheen:

I not mechanical and do not know about hydrolics.

You can never get the T bar snug agaist your body. No, my gut is normal. When you pull it into your body, there usually is a space of at least a couple of inches from your body when it locks. Even if you hold it snug against your body, when the restraints offically lock, it is never snug. enough. Yes, it does the trick, but you do bounce up a bit. Like a said before, it does keep you from falling out, but it can be vastly improved. The sholder restraints on the looping coasters lock you in much tighter than these t bars. The restraints on these coasters are more secure.*** This post was edited by BOB D 5/7/2004 12:29:19 PM ***

Push don't pull Bob! :>)

Its a fact that those lap bars will go down as fas as they can. You can push and they will go down until they can't go anymore. You can and will be stapled into them from now on, I can gurantee it! *** This post was edited by Crashmando 5/7/2004 12:37:47 PM ***

SLFAKE - good point about the seat belts. The report says 'The position of the latching mechanism was pulled between the seat, and the side restraint'. I'm not exactly sure what this means. Is this the normal position or is the report saying it was incorrect?

I have seen riders on MF try to buckle the seat belt while it was looped over one of the bars and it cann't be done because of the length. But with an extra 11 inches, it may be possible to buckle the belt and not have it snugly against your body.

BOB D - I have never ridden Superman, but on MF the T-Bar always fits against by body with no space (I have an avarage sized body). Most shoulder restraints have considerably more space between the collar and my shoulders.

Maybe a quick fix would be making the foam at the top of the t bar bigger and rap around the riders. Making it easier for the ride ops to make sure they are down all the way. Shorting the seat belts so they don't stretch over that side bar is also a great idea. Also maybe putting a short seat belt on the side bar, i mean really short that plugs into the T- bar so u know its lowered enough.. So if that belt doesn't buckle your lapbar ain't down enough.

*** This post was edited by Crashmando 5/7/2004 12:54:57 PM ***

"It stated that the front car had longer seatbelts to accomodate riders of larger girth. I would assume that Intamin has specific specifications for length of seatbelt.Were the front belts replaced with belts of a longer length than what is recommended by Intamin?"

IIRC the all belts on the train are the same length but those on the front row of each car are attached to the chassis in a different spot than the row behind it, which is also elevated.

Rideman...isn't that correct?

*** This post was edited by Mamoosh 5/7/2004 1:29:38 PM ***

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"It surprises me to learn that his lap belt was fastened. I've got a bit of a belly and I feel that if only the lap belt were secured on SROS I would still be okay."

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Find a pair of pants that have a waist 11" longer than you're used to and imagine if you'd be able to get out of them quickly. I'm sure your answer will be yes.

I'm not an expert, but I think if you want to attribute this to "mechanical" failure (though there was certainly a human element), that extra-long belt is the problem.

I can get the Intamin T-bars to my thighs like the report says I should, but lap bars on Morgan hypers and PTC woodie trains hit my stomach. Does anyone think that the industry will adopt the "lap bar to thighs" for all coasters or is that just for Intamins?

I believe this recommendation is specific to the t-bar design.

Bob D, You are obviously doing something wrong or talking about another ride. The T-bar will push very firmly against you as long as you push it down. It does not have notches, it moves in a telescopic manner thanks to the hydraulics.

Crashmando I already suggested that in one of the other threads related to this incident & yes I do believe that would be a good idea.

I can't believe that they're not holding the ops largely responsible for this....not only did their actions(or lack thereof) cost a man his life but by not checking the entire left side of the train they put other passengers at risk.

Hopefully the changes made to all three rides(at least those in the SF chain) will be a good first step towards preventing another tragedy like this from ever happening again...one death on a ride is one too many if you ask me.

The belts are the same for all the seats. They are even attatched at the same point on the train. The difference is that the front row seats are lower than the second (of each of the 9 cars). I never anticipated the belts were too long, but apparantly they were in this case. It's sad because a lot of husky guys are going to be out of luck riding S:ROS now. I am a big broad guy at 6'2", 265, and a 40" waist, and I am about as big as you can fit in the rear seats of the superman trains.

I am gonna wait for the autopsy results to see if there was something more to this. I just don't understand why two people would be trying to hold down Mordarsky had he not appeared to be in trouble. The report says witnesses describe him as leaning forward throughout the ride, and then falling to the side over the bunny hills. Even if he was not strong enough to hold himself up, dont you think he'd be grabbing at the cart with his hands, not letting them hang down to be severed by the track. Had that not happened I don't think he would have fallen out. His shoe and sock were ripped off during the ejection. Thats not from the G-Forces! I tell you, there is still more to this.

I am just so sad for everyone involved. I prayers go out to the fellow riders and people waiting in line that witnessed this! And for the ride ops and fellow employees! Earlier I saw a link to pictures of the cars and restraints, could you steer me in that direction again please? I tell you this is a wake up call for us all, I think. I have a few times not wanted my lap bar against me (not on this coaster) and felt that the seat belt was just ridiculous! (again not on this coaster!) I have for sure changed my thinking on every device...!

What is really amazing about the "blacking-out" is that they don't realize this is a completely ineffective method with PDFs. Though there really isn't anything interesting or new under the black-outs.

*** This post was edited by jdancisin 5/7/2004 4:45:03 PM ***

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The use of T-bars as a primary restraint will now be banned, officials say. Among the state's 40 permanent amusement parks, only the Superman ride is affected, and the park must either replace the T-bar with a new device or acquire a state-approved fix from the manufacturer.

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This was in the Boston Herald article. Is this official or are they going to look at just changing the belts and maybe the seats?

Apart from the fact that the Boston Herald apparently misread the State's report, I suspect that the various methods being applied qualify as "a state-approved fix" for the coaster.

From what I have read, I suspect that the Boston Herald decided several days ago what was the cause of the incident, and it turns out that their decision doesn't necessarily agree with the State's incident report.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I still do not undestand why Intamin coasters are allowed to dispatch with the restraints not being closed enough and/or completely open! I hope Intamin installs a system like that found on the new Frisbee at PKI that tells ride-ops if each seat's restraints have been lowered enough to properly secure the rider. Intamin should at least have some system in place that doesn't allow a train to be dispatched with the restraints open and some warning system that notifies ride-ops if a restraint isn't properly closed. If these systems were in place there would be a lesser risk of something like this happening again.

Jeff said "Find a pair of pants that have a waist 11" longer than you're used to and imagine if you'd be able to get out of them quickly. I'm sure your answer will be yes."

Yes Jeff, if you tried to wear pants 11 inches to large you could get out easily, but the belt could be 50 feet too long and if it were properly adjusted it would fit perfectly.

As stated in the original thread after the accident I am NOT surprised that the closing and checking of the restraints was at least partially responsible after having to sign a statement on Sunday that I knew and understood how to secure all types of restraint systems.

Some people of lager girth can still properly secure a seat belt and T-bar if the lift their "rolls" before securing and will be properly seated, so this doesn't necesarily preclude larger riders even with a redisgned system, you just may have too put some effort into it! ;)

Most coasters are able to be dispatched with open restraints. I do, however, see the restraint position indicators being a welcome addition to coasters by most parks. The park just needs a way to measure the gap between the seat and the restraint. We use a 3'' x 3'' cube at Titan at SFOT. If it fits in the gap and the rider cannot push his or her own lap bar down to the required position without the assitance of an operator, the rider cannot ride.

I have seen 4 operators pushing on a lap bar at once to try to get it down to an acceptable position, and up until this year we could do that at SFOT, but they have stated no more. It is considered stapling (which is a major reason for termination here now) and also puts unusual forces on the restraint system which we don't want for obvious reasons.

No ride is worth risking a life for. Of course riders are going to be upset if you cannot push down on their lap bar for them even if they say it is okay, but usually if you kindly explain to the rider that it is for safety reasons everything is ok. I think it would be a good policy for all parks to adopt, it would probably alleviate a lot of headaches throughout the year.

Why would you ever want to be able to dispatch a train with open restraints in any circumstance? I can see if the ride was being serviced and in some sort of "test mode" that required a technician's overide, but under normal circumstances, it seems to me that some sort of warning sensor would at least cut down on the room for human error.

I have ridden SROS at SFNE religiously since it opened. At no time have I ever felt unsecure in the restraint. For those who have ridden MF and not SROS, let me make a comparison. I'm sure there are some who will agree with this: The floating air you experience on MF's second hill.... That is nothing compared to the ejector air you experience on almost all of SROS' hills. I'm talking "rip you out of the seat" air. No coaster I have ever ridden even comes close to it... Therefore, it is OBVIOUS to me that if the TBAR and belt were fastened improperly, combined with the man's condition, it is entirely possible that he could slip slowly out of position until...

It is truly a sad event... So many things went wrong at once. We still don't know a lot of things, so its still early to speculate. Did he lose conciousness for some reason, etc.. Any change that will improve safety is a welcome change.

I do have one question. The report said that a rider behind him grabbed his suspenders and tried to hold him down on the hills. Is there a possibility that this "help" could have been a contributing factor in the man being moved out of normal position? Or would that not matter and not be a factor in this?*** This post was edited by 5/7/2004 6:59:33 PM ***