It's a real shame about Vekoma's reputation in America, when it seems to me that it's the parks at fault, not the manufacturer. Okay, there are severe delays with the Dejas, but when a park has a Vekoma, and maintains it properly, it can run smoothly for many seasons. Vekoma get a real slating by many people here for being rough. Only when you visit parks such as 6 flags, (who don't clean the toilets let alone maintain a coaster) do you get an earbashing. And about Six Flags, you can attract the public with big new rides on a regular basis, but it's not the way to stay in business, or preserve your investments. The Boomerang is a fantastic design, inexpensive, includes 6 inversions, and a moderate hourly throughput. Its not the most exciting coaster anymore, but consider its been around since the early eighties, when it was a major ride, and they are still being installed today...This ride is an obvious investment for any park, from the smaller family run parks to the bigwigs. IMO its a real shame not many people appreciate these machines, especially when the real reason is when parks don't spend what they should servicing them. Once construction and testing are completed, the manufacturer commissions the ride to the park. Members of the public are not usually permitted to ride until this has happened. After this time the rides' maintenance is the responsibility of the park. Dare I mention Deja Vu after all that? Yes I do. The prototype has problems, and perhaps this ride was marketed too early… All right, it was marketed far too early, but that what happens when the public wants it yesterday. But, everyone who slated Deja-Vu was surely impressed when they 1st saw it. It's a 200-ft coaster, complete with vertical drops, and again 6 inversions. This puts it in competition with the Intamin Impulse rides, hyper coasters, and the B&M multi-loopers, all for a fraction of the cost of any of those attractions. Once the flaws are ironed out, This product should be hugely successful. Certain hardcore enthusiasts will probably not be impressed seeing the same ride at every other park..(the same people who dog the boomerangs!) but the rest of the public will be impressed, and remember, they are the majority visitors (spenders) at parks. This will enable smaller parks to compete with Paramount, and 6 Flags, and Cedar Fair, ultimately meaning fewer parks will close and less classic coasters will be lost. Schwarzkopf, as fantastic as his designs were went bankrupt, Giovanola have pulled out of the coaster market as it is not profitable enough for them. Morgan could only stay in business by going into partnership with Chance, Pinfari and Zamperla cater for parks with an even smaller budget, Intamin's main interest is in people movers, not just free fall towers and coasters. That leaves two other manufacturers to mention. Arrow are making a major comeback with 4D, but where have they been the last few years, and B&M, who are probably the worlds leading manufacturers., and also the most expensive. Vekoma, have been all round market leaders of coaster builders for over 20 years, because their designs consider many factors, which other manufacturers don't. Besides which, didn't you mother ever tell you, you should be grateful for any contribution, great or small! Colin McWilliam 2001.
colin mcwilliam's words in italics Vekoma get a real slating by many people here for being rough. Only when you visit parks such as 6 flags, (who don't clean the toilets let alone maintain a coaster) do you get an earbashing.
Tell that to the people who have stated that the boomerangs at KBF, WoF, and HearsheyPark hurt their heads. Do ALL these parks have bad maintainece or is the product flawed?
And about Six Flags, you can attract the public with big new rides on a regular basis, but it's not the way to stay in business, or preserve your investments. And this has what to do with Vekoma?
But, everyone who slated Deja-Vu was surely impressed when they 1st saw it. People were impressed by the Titanic too. Was that a great product?
Giovanola have pulled out of the coaster market as it is not profitable enough for them. Giovanola is still making coasters. Do a search here an find the thread for yourself (started by Sam A. Marks)
Morgan could only stay in business by going into partnership with Chance, Businesses merge all the time...
Pinfari and Zamperla cater for parks with an even smaller budget, Intamin's main interest is in people movers, not just free fall towers and coasters. That leaves two other manufacturers to mention. I guess to hell with Mack, Reverchon, Caprio, Setpoint, and the woodie companies, huh?
Vekoma, have been all round market leaders of coaster builders for over 20 years, because their designs consider many factors, which other manufacturers don't. Umm, Intamin has been doing this for a VERY long time, and doing it well. SO WELL in fact, that two companies have spun off from them. Need I *really* go over the long list of Intamin products which include freefalls (Drop Zone), observation decks (Sky Trek Tower), woodies (American Eagle), steelies (V:TBC) etc. Vekoma is a relative newcomer compared to Intamin. And their initial showing has been less than stellar.
Besides which, didn't you mother ever tell you, you should be grateful for any contribution, great or small! TRUE, they could always serve as a BAD EXAMPLE! hehehe lata, jeremy --who would love to ride Robin Hood
I don't mind their rides, in fact I still ride Boomerangs when I encounter them. I think a few of us take our hobbies I bit too seriously and think nothing of critisizing Vekoma, Six Flags and any other company that doesn't deliver to our demands. All done while sitting on our duffs in front of a computer screen.
Sorry, but I take most opinions on the coaster industry with a grain of salt. Because they're just that really, knee jerk opinions which usually aren't very educated. I don't buy this sudden attack on Vekoma one bit, not one bit. Once Deja Vu opens, all these Vekoma "haters" will join right in with the rest of the "running of the bulls". You watch.
And I do applaud Vekoma and SF for making sure their product is ready and safe. I just wish SF had tried Deja Vu at one park first, then built others, as they are doing with X.
------------- I'd like a tall CCI out and back, and a grande nonfat Latte to go please!
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 8/11/2001. ***
I say if you like vekoma and have fun riding them then why ask questions or try to compare them with other companies? Booms/invertigos seem to be a good investment for parks and still pretty popular with the "non-enthusiasts". Even though they're cloning the dutchmans, they look pretty thrilling and unique to me. They're not my favorite types of coasters but that's just me. As long as people enjoy them then I hope they keep building them.
2 Hostyl: I take it you don't like Vekoma?! To respond to your points about my points about....!
The point re 6 Flags and Vekoma:is that there are many complaints about Vekoma, and I believe they make perfectly smooth rides. Companies such as 6 flags do not spend the money they ought to on maintenance. Maybe if they did their boomerangs and SLC's would not get such a slating.
The Titanic was an excellent product, human arrogance brought it down............
Giovanola have no plans that I'm aware of to build any new coasters once the commisioning of the Mineshaft ride in S.Africa is complete, if you know of any, please enlighten us.
Not to hell with any manufacturer at all, as quoted, be greatful for all contributions, but as you mention it, I'm not sure about Setpoint but all the other companies you mentioned have other business interests, The woodie companies didn't get a mention as they cater for different kind of ride. Allthough Vekoma are now enterring the woodie market...
None of the points I make Slate any company, I just believe Vekoma deserve more respect than they get from spoilt coaster riders, like err, let me think....
2Hostyl we should change you name is Way2Hostyl. There is really no way I could respect Vekoma. Stealth didn't really impress me but it seems they improved on it with X-Flight (thank god). But I can't say that it is a good company because I hear way to many complaints about them. So much that I don't even want to ride another one.
As for your comment on Boomerangs, you said they are good rides, but I hear people talking about how much of a let down they are, so they can't be all that good
As for Deja Vu being in competition with B&M Loopers and hyper coasters, I doubt it. Maybe it will compete with Impulse coasters if it ever works but not with the other 2. Its just a big boomerang. Personally, the only thing that made the ride make me look twice was the height but after I really thought about it, it wasn't all that impresive. I doubt if Daja Vu will put small parks in the race with larger parks. SFNE have the number 2 coaster in the world but just awhile ago, someone asked why don't more people come to the park.
When I read your post, you really tried to make Vekoma look good but, they have been put down so much that it made me look at the screen funny. Unless Vekoma does something about that rep they have then people will still down their coaster.
As for coaster companies, you may say that there are only 2 major coaster companies, but whether they are fully in the coaster game or not, they are still there. Intamin maybe in to people movers, but most people would rather ride an Intamin rather than a Vekoma. There are many coaster companies out there that produce good coasters.
Almost everything I said is based on what I have heard from other people. I have ridden 2 coasters from Vekoma, a boomerang and Stealth. I didn't like either one. I cannot speak for any other coaster out there, but I can speak on what I hear people on this site and my friends say about them.
vekoma is one of the most successful companies out there.They have more coasters than any other company out there. Vekoma would be even more popular if the had a different otsh . Here in Cleveland at SFWOA I rode serial thriller last week. The weather being so hot that the otsh was VERY soft.you could push your finger into it and see the imprint. So when you head bang into the otsh it was like hitting a soft pillow . The head banging was harsh when I rode it at fright fest and it was 50 degrees out side and the OTSH was hard as rock and hurt like heck. I don't blame the coaster design anymore just the rock hard OTSH. if they could retrofit these harnesses with the something else ( Like the restraints from Xflight/Batwing. I know it would be expensive ) I bet they would be thought in a higher regard for their designs
------------- Roller coaster of Love ~ ooi ~ ooi ~ ooi
colin mcwilliam said: "The point re 6 Flags and Vekoma:is that there are many complaints about Vekoma, and I believe they make perfectly smooth rides. Companies such as 6 flags do not spend the money they ought to on maintenance. Maybe if they did their boomerangs and SLC's would not get such a slating."
I think you are only 1/2 right here. Yes, more should be done to maintain them - however, Vekoma should do more to make them require less maintainence. Six Flags parks have collections of coasters from various companies. The old Vekomas are rough, whereas the old B&Ms are not. Does Six Flags maintain the B&Ms more then the Vekomas ? Probably not - the Vekomas are just not as well built (or so it would seem).
I'm not big on the Boomerangs. They make Arrow multi loopers seems smooth as glass (and I DID ride one when it was brand new - Boomerang @ WoF). But I do like the SLCs and the Invertigos are OK. In fact, I just had a friend say that she thought Mind Eraser was better than Batman (I almost choked !) - and this is coming from a general public opinion, so everyone likes things for different reasons. To each their own. I'm always happy to have a new coaster at a park, regardless who builds them. Right now, I wish they could all be B&Ms and CCIs, but eventually that would get old. Variety is the spice of life after all...
------------- Current favorite coasters: Wooden: 1) Beast 2) Raven 3) Son of Beast 4) The Boss 5) Timber Wolf Steel: 1) Raging Bull 2) Millennium Force 3) V2 4) Wild Thing 5) Mr. Freeze
*** This post was edited by Joe Carroll on 8/11/2001. ***
colin mcwilliam said: "Arrow are making a major comeback with 4D, but where have they been the last few years, and B&M, who are probably the worlds leading manufacturers., and also the most expensive. "
At least tall people can fit on their rides. I have little to no respect for a company that right now has FOUR products out that taller people can't ride. Sorry.
Can I still stick up for Vekoma??Too right I can!!
'Joe' said: "Six Flags parks have collections of coasters from various companies. The old Vekomas are rough, whereas the old B&Ms are not. Does Six Flags maintain the B&Ms more then the Vekomas ?"
-No, 6Flags just don't maintain anything, thats my point. I was in Ca last year, and I thought MM's Viper was just as rough as MW's Kong. B&M contributed to the manufacture of Flashback,which isn't even operating. The Superhero rides at MM are yes, loads smoother than most Vekomas, but they come with a much larger price tag.
's' said "Booms/invertigos seem to be a good investment for parks " Exactly, John Wardley once said "B&M make the Porches of the rolleroaster world", and they do, but not all parks have the capital to finance one of their projects, I just think people should look further than height, speed and quality before dissing Vekoma. The public havn't got a clue who builds these rides, or how smooth 1 manufacturer is in comparison with another.
Anyone ridden Goudurix at Asterix park?, it's a Vekoma, and I'll admit its the roughest steely I've been on, but further respect to Vekoma for that Butterfly element.
Oh, and we forgot to mention the tilt coaster.
'saviourmachine'- erm, yes, erm, well! No arguing with that one at all. But after all Vekoma have contributed I still think no respect is a little harsh! I know about the Deja height restritions, and Deja is without doubt the #1 reason for the majority of the recent spate of hatred for Vekoma, as I said, marketed far too early. But I'm unaware of the other height restricted products, would be interested to hear from you on that one though... Most rides cannot cater for all shapes and sizes, which is a problem more companies than just B&M should adress, but I believe that even Schwarzkopf has further size restrictions than Vekoma, you ridden any of the Jetstars?
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all coaster manufacturers, (but I'm about to slag off Intamin!). S:TE, when I rode it, billed as the tallest and fastest ride on the planet, was really dissappointing (if anyone @6flags is reading please reverse the cars!!!), and Intamins' designs aren't very original. Atlantis is going to be more of a spin'n'puke looking at the plans, 4 heartlines in a straight line?
*** This post was edited by colin mcwilliam on 8/11/2001. ***
This is all apples, oranges and semantics. No company has built ALL winners or ALL losers, so alot of these opinions are based on your own experiences. Vekoma has built it's share of tankers, but they also build more coasters per year than any other company. Not all of their coasters are rough, their family suspended coasters are wonderful, the invertigos are intense and the wooden coasters are suppose to be among the best(can't wait to get one here in the States). Go ride the coasters you like, skip the ones you don't, and stop worrying so much about who designed them. It's about as boring and geeky as a bunch a guys sitting around comparing car manufacturing companies.
------------- I'd like a tall CCI out and back, and a grande nonfat Latte to go please!
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 8/11/2001. ***
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 8/11/2001. ***
Jephry said: "2Hostyl we should change you name is Way2Hostyl. There is really no way I could respect Vekoma. Stealth didn't really impress me but it seems they improved on it with X-Flight (thank god)."
#1-Don't mess with Jeremy. He has been at this site forever. People are intitled to their own opinion..
#2-Just because they changed the Corkscrew's with In-Line twists and added a helix doesn't mean that you can sit there and say that is the only thing they have ever done right.When you start building your own coasters, see what reviews you get.. ------------- My favorite Coaster is named after Poop, and I actually like Boomerangs! What is wrong with me?
*** This post was edited by ßruce on 8/11/2001. ***
colin mcwilliam said: "'Joe' said: "Six Flags parks have collections of coasters from various companies. The old Vekomas are rough, whereas the old B&Ms are not. Does Six Flags maintain the B&Ms more then the Vekomas ?"
-No, 6Flags just don't maintain anything, thats my point. I was in Ca last year, and I thought MM's Viper was just as rough as MW's Kong. B&M contributed to the manufacture of Flashback,which isn't even operating. The Superhero rides at MM are yes, loads smoother than most Vekomas, but they come with a much larger price tag. "
My point exactly. A B&M with no maintainence is smoother then a Vekoma with no maintaninece - therefore the Vekomas are most likely not built or engineered as well. As for them costing less, that is barely true. For example: Mind Eraser @ SFNE = $10 million. Raptor @ CP = $11.5 million. And anyone will tell you that Raptor is a better ride than ANY SLC, regardless of maintainence requirements.
I actually like the SLCs ! But there is no way that Vekoma comes even close to B&M in quality, at least not in the past - we can oly hope they get better in the future. ------------- Current favorite coasters: Wooden: 1) Beast 2) Raven 3) Son of Beast 4) The Boss 5) Timber Wolf Steel: 1) Raging Bull 2) Millennium Force 3) V2 4) Wild Thing 5) Mr. Freeze
Obviously, Vekoma is doing something right. They sell more coasters than anyone else in the world. Remember that the average rider doesn't give a hoot about the fact that they have built a dozen or more of the coaster a different parks.
Obviously, Vekoma is doing something wrong. SLC's are notorious head bangers. Personally I've never found the head banging excessive on Boomerangs. They are having major problems getting any operation on the Deja Vu's and getting reliable operation on their flying dutchmen.
One note: The two smoothest SLC's that I have ridden have both been at Six Flags Parks. While maintenance varies from park to park, I generally find Six Flags maintenance to be good. Quality of maintenance has realtively little to do with smoothness or lack there of on steel coasters.
Several Points 1) I neither love nor despise Vekoma. I think the invertigos are better than Raptor. And I think that Serial Thriller (SFWoA) is more painful than the OLD Oucher Limits: Flight of Pain. I thought the Mad House (Houdini @ GAdv) was marvelous but the Wakki Wave @ SFKK was a head banging flat ride. So far, Vekoma is average as best to me.
2) Jephry, while I am "hostyl" none of the things you talked about were said by me. Please re-read (I'll be here when you decide to apologize :))
3) About the Giovanola thing, for the SECOND TIME, I say do a search.
4) Bruce thanks! :)...but I got this one ;)
5) Like Joe C said, Vekoma's arent like CCI cheap. They are still fairly pricey for what may be a substandard product.
6) And the last thing I'm going to say for a while is "Intamin's designs not original?!?!" You arent really saying that in a thread for Vekoma are you? There are essentially only three (maybe four) different Vekoma design in the States. Intamin has three different HYPER designs over here, not to mention their other coasters. If you dont like Intamin, fine. But dont hate on them for a "lack of orignality" and in the same breath say you like the "Off the Shelf" king Vekoma! lata, jeremy BTW: My bad, I meant to say four or five. I forgot about Rock and Rollercoaster. Mea Culpa! ------------- "Nobody writes about the planes that land." Steve Salerno Washington Times 7-10-01
*** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 8/11/2001. ***