Question about T-shirts, copyright...

Monday, April 21, 2003 7:58 AM
OK, so a few months ago I was looking through my 2002 Cedar Point fun and thought it would be cool to make a t-shirt that said "Line Jumping is NOT a sporting Event" and then have the picture that they have in the fun guide. The one with the guy walking on top of the people and then a big X or whatever over him. Anyway, I never really got around to it, but now I'd actually like to.

So, my question is... can I use that picture or is it an infringment of the copyright? I looked all over the Fun Guide and I can't find anything that says whether you can or can't use the pictures in there. If anyone knows please let me know, or if you know specificially who I could contact that would be cool too.

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Rob - Who believes it is possible to like both Cedar Point and SFWoA...
"A gun is not a weapon Marge, it's a tool. Like a butcher knife, or a harpoon, or... or an alligator" ~Homer J. Simpson

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Monday, April 21, 2003 8:14 AM
I'd say your best bet is to contact the CP Guest Relations staff...they'd be able to give you a definitive answer... Either email them at prdept@cedarpoint.com or call them at (419) 627-2223.

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--George H
---Superman the ride...coming to a SF park near you soon...
Currency tracking experiment... http://www.wheresgeorge.com (Referring to The "George" on the $1 bill - Not Me)

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Monday, April 21, 2003 8:22 AM
as long as you don't sell the shirt you'll be fine.

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And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes.
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

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Monday, April 21, 2003 8:23 AM
For personal use (like just one shirt for you to use) you'd probably not have a problem although it'd still be technically infringing on someone else's property.

Anything (photo, music, text) that someone else created cannot be used without permission.

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www.coasterimage.com

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Monday, April 21, 2003 8:38 AM
The latest copyright laws in the the US are pretty extreme. Virtually everything written is automaticly copyrighted. What I'm typing right now is considered copyrighted unless I say it isn't. Don't ask me if I own the copyright or if Jeff does. I haven't figured that one out yet.

So yes, CP owns the copyright unless somebody else does. As a practical matter though I wouldn't expect them to give you any grief over a single shirt that you make for yourself.

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Monday, April 21, 2003 9:24 AM
As someone who deals with this very issue for S&D Greetings here's my take on yoru issue. If you're making *one* shirt for your own personal use I seriously doubt anyone would sue you for copyright infringement. You're a pretty small fish...there are bigger ones to fry. That being said it never hurts to ask permission anyway.

What gets people into trouble is when they use copyrighted materials [logos, photos, music, etc] on products they've made themselves, like coaster video tapes for example, and then sells them. Whether or not said person actually makes a profit or is just covering their costs is inconsequential to the person who is not being paid for their usage of their copyrighted creation.

Moosh

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Don't believe everything you think.

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Monday, April 21, 2003 10:03 AM
Jim: Anything has copyright pretty much as soon as it is made into a fixed form. That has been true in the US and internationally for decades.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

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Monday, April 21, 2003 10:19 AM

Mamoosh said:


What gets people into trouble is when they use copyrighted materials [logos, photos, music, etc] on products they've made themselves, like coaster video tapes for example, and then sells them.


Exactly! Kind of makes me wonder how so many people are pulling this off. Perhaps the reach of many of these videos isn't very great? Maybe the parks enjoy the free publicity? Who knows? It's something I'd love to do, but all the legalities of keeping it legit just seem to outweigh the fun of doing it.

Speaking of which, how'd you go about it, Moosh? If you don't mind my asking...

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www.coasterimage.com

*** This post was edited by Lord Gonchar 4/21/2003 2:21:15 PM ***

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Monday, April 21, 2003 11:01 AM
Heh...the one time I mentioned making my own personal t-shirt with my cbuzz and gttp names next to small logos (specifically so others could identify me as members of both), Jeff threatened to sue my pants off.

So whether it's for personal use or not, I'm under the impression that copyright is copyright. You don't use it without permission.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
http://www.webtechnik.com/ebony/CPLady.htm

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Monday, April 21, 2003 11:21 AM
I might sue, but keep your pants on! This is a family site, not a site for making families. ;)

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:20 PM
And here I thought you wanted to see the CBuzz thong!! Or was that 'Playa?

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
http://www.webtechnik.com/ebony/CPLady.htm

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:22 PM
LG - I've never produced a coaster video, so I don't have to worry about selling a video tape that contains unlicensed music or on-ride footage that violates park policies. At S&D Greetings when we use a copyrighted image we've received permission from the owner to do so.

"Kind of makes me wonder how so many people are pulling this off."

They keep their fingers crossed and hope parks and music publishers don't care or don't catch on. But trust me...parks have caught on and it's only a matter of time before ASCAP and BMI catch on. It's no coincidence that ACE no longers allows videos with on-ride footage in their video contests. And I know of at least one person who has been un-invited to a few media preview events because the parks have seen on-ride footage clearly obtained by violating park rules in this person's videos.

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Don't believe everything you think. - bumper sticker seen on 4/19/03



*** This post was edited by Mamoosh 4/21/2003 4:38:44 PM ***

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:34 PM
Thanks, Moosh. I meant the latter. I was just curious about the S&D product images.

I've had a ton of interest in some of my pics. Probably not too easy to get permission in most cases and was wondering what S&D did.

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www.coasterimage.com

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:38 PM
If you have photos you think we can use we'd love to see them. But if they show a park or coaster's logo or riders with their hands up chances are we'd pass.

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Don't believe everything you think. - bumper sticker seen on 4/19/03

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:41 PM
If music is copyrighted, how do groups and singers get away with doing covers? Surely "Alien Ant Farm" didn't have Michael Jackson's permission to cover "Smooth Criminal."

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A day is a drop of water in the ocean of eternity. A week is seven drops.

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:46 PM
You pay a liscensing fee. The difference is Alien Ant Farm re-recorded the song. The just didn't put Michael Jackson's version on their CD.

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www.coasterimage.com

*** This post was edited by Lord Gonchar 4/21/2003 4:46:58 PM ***

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:46 PM
Of course MJ gave permision for AAF to cover "Smooth Criminal." He got $$ for every album and CD-single sold and every time that song was played on the radio or TV. AAF made little to no money from that hit.

Same reason Dolly Parton made a ton of money from Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You."

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Don't believe everything you think. - bumper sticker seen on 4/19/03

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Monday, April 21, 2003 12:48 PM
Permission is not needed. Anyone can file the proper paperwork (you can even do it online) and pay the fee and record a "cover" version of a song. Oddly, the fees are rather low and you pay per copy made.

The statutory royalty rate is 8 cents a copy (under 5 minutes). So for every million copies AAF sold of that cover, they only paid $80,000 - and that goes to whoever holds publishing rights (the reason Jackson himself bought the rights to the Beatles tunes), not the artist.

The reason AAF probably didn't see much money from that song isn't that it went to Jackson, it's that the middlemen got most of it. I'm sure they saw plenty of profits from increased ticket and merchandise sells due to the popularity of that tune. That's where the real money is for any artist that doesn't sell a gazillion records.

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www.coasterimage.com


*** This post was edited by Lord Gonchar 4/21/2003 5:00:28 PM ***

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Monday, April 21, 2003 2:11 PM
No doubt, LG. Only the most successful bands who have the clout to negotiate a better recording contract make money from record and single sales. The rest make their money touring and merchandise sales.

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Don't believe everything you think. - bumper sticker seen on 4/19/03

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Monday, April 21, 2003 3:33 PM
Mamoosh, just curious as to why you couldn't use pics with people holding their hands up on a coaster?
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