Poor Operations At SeaWorld Orlando

I'd find it odd that rides would make more than other departments, as it's the department most in demand. I would think that you'd want to pay foods more. Checking restraints > standing over a fryer when it's 80 out > RRR.

metallik:

I don't know, does KI have more autonomy than the other CF parks to run like that, or are the other CF parks also doing pretty well and I'm just hearing amplified negativity about them?

To some degree, the negativity about Cedar Point is probably amplified because of how good they used to be at operations. They are still probably average at worst, but it doesn't seem to be trending in the right direction either. I don't know the answer in terms of KI's autonomy, but I do think that over the past couple years, KI has surpassed CP in terms of operational efficiency. I don't think they're as good as CP was at their peak, but as of right now, KI is the better run park. Perhaps KI being next to a large city probably means they are able to fill their seasonal staffing needs easier. That might not only be for rides and foods, but also maintenance staff too. I do know that KI has a some leadership that has been there a while and cares deeply about the place - almost like Cedar Point used to. I did find it disturbing that Don Helbig suddenly left this past summer as I'd put him in that bucket of a leader that had been there a while and cared a lot about the place. I'm not sure if that was his choice to step back, or whether he was shown the door. He does still post a lot about KI, CP, as well as other parks like Dollywood so he definitely still has an interest in the industry.

I think when the decision makers are seeing things only in terms of transaction volume, transaction amount, units sold, etc, they tend to lose sight of the fact that they are in the business of showing people a good time, allowing them to have a day of fun, make great memories, etc. Perceptions matter. When people are going to the internet to talk about how they were running one train on a ride in the middle of July while the wait was an hour, or that it took 30 minutes to park because there was no staff to direct the traffic, or that they sold me an all day meal plan but closed all the places that take it an hour early, that's not good for the long term health of a business even if it saved them ?? dollars in maintenance or labor costs that day. It will take its toll at some point.

I'm surprised to see people criticize CP's operations as much as they do. Are they a little slower than they used to be? Absolutely. However, every time I've been there the last few years the employees are still busting their butts. I think that park (and KI) are still in the upper echelon of operations for non-Disney parks.

On a related thread, I also disagree with people comparing Universal to Disney. In my (limited) experience, Uni's operations are substantially worse, both in ride design and in operations. Velocicoaster has one station and stacked a fair bit, compared to Disney's new coasters which have four stations (2 unload and 2 load). Gringotts was abysmally slow. Hagrid's runs half the trains it was originally designed to run.

I'm surprised by your Universal experience. I really only go once a year, and admittedly, it's because someone can offer comps. It isn't as good as Disney, but on most attractions it's good enough. Earlier this year I had an easy 30-minute wait on Velocicoaster, and I was impressed with overall staffing, including the bits around the lockers.

MDOmnis:

Don Helbig suddenly left

I'm not sure that "left" was the actual circumstance.

Last time I was at Universal Florida was summer 2021. I had no issues with the ride ops there. Velocicoaster was approx 45min-1hour wait but the line constantly moved.

I did have the unlimited express passes, which made the parks a lot more tolerable.

Velocicoaster has crazy good ops. The train pulls in. Gates open. People leave and people sit down. Restraints are checked and the train is dispatched. There’s no fat in the operation of that ride. They do take a train away for maintenance in the “off” season but it’s barely noticeable. Hagrid’s is running with I think 1 less train than Intamin promised but that’s on Intamin, not Universal.

Velocicoaster target is somewhere around 70 dispatches an hour, which combined with 24 riders per train, combines for a cool 1680 riders an hour. Slinky Dog Dash at Disney Hollywood Studios has a similar target for dispatches per hour, but with only 18 riders per train, 1260 is what they can achieve capacity wise. Add the much lower height restriction, the park relatively low number of mechanical attractions and its why the lines are so long at Slinky Dog Dash.

I visited the Orlando parks before last IAAPA (November 2023) and Busch Gardens Tampa was frustrating when it came to Montu, similar to other posters stories. On a saturday that's the first day of Christmas Town, they only put in service a single train on Montu, leading to an easy 60 + minutes wait. Kumba had little to no wait with no train in comparison.

Absimilliard:

Kumba had little to no wait with no train in comparison.

Zero train ops > Rip Ride Rockit

If Kumba needed a train, it would already have one.

No we didn't. We made minimum wage. Leads made more, but it was like fifty cents to a dollar more. But we did have obtainable goals to get a pretty decent bonus at the end of the season. Coaster crews and high volume rides were generally reserved for returning team members and would fill thereafter, but everything was gender segregated back then so requests tended to be limited.

97-98 this was true, however I worked 5 years at CP, my last two in Park Ops was 03 and 04, after the ride ops were not segregated by sex, and I definitely made a $1 more than minimum, with a $1/h year-end bonus, and Team Leaders made .50-$1 more than that. I started in catering and got min my first year, and cash control my 2nd got .50 cents more. It's the reason once was older, I decided on Park Ops.

To some degree, the negativity about Cedar Point is probably amplified because of how good they used to be at operations. They are still probably average at worst, but it doesn't seem to be trending in the right direction either.

I tend to agree. My trip last fall was pretty back to normal, the SV crew was the best crew I had seen at any park, Maverick was being Maverick more because of Intamin and Guest. Magnum was most lively as always and quick, and the rest of the majors were okay. Gatekeeper was rolling. Wild Mouse was 15 min or less and def the fastest mouse I have seen anywhere. Having just went to both BGW and KD earlier in the year it, was not all the doom and gloom I heard in June.

KD made my last trip to Great Adventure look decent, Dominator was the worst run B&M I have ever seen, stacking for days, two ops on platform, one op always preoccupied with fast lane, and handicap, and etc.

BGW was mixed, Pantheon had a good crew, but was not lighting quick, and Verbolten and Darkoaster had the worst pace Ive seen at any of the Seas parks. But I have not been to BGT or SWO since the mid 2000's.

Two trains.

John Ivers only runs a single one-seat train on Blue Flash. What a dick.

All this talk is making me quite worried that I've been spoiled rotten by KI and am going to really hate visiting other parks that aren't run the same

I grew up going to CP. Now KI is my home park. Last summer I returned to CP after a few years and wow... in terms of operations, it was quite the step down. Now some rides were killing it (Magnum) while others were so painfully slow to dispatch (MF). And some of the flats? Oy.

Today, KI is not in the same realm as the heyday of CP ops, but they're still very good. I suspect that KI has indeed spoiled me, to the point where I have second thoughts about visiting other parks. Holiday World is on this list for this summer and word is their ops have really fallen off, so we'll see. Might throw in another park or two, like a trip down to Carowinds or a Hershey/Knoebels combo.

My only other comparisons since the pandemic are Disney (excellent), Dollywood (fine), and Kentucky Kingdom (atrocious).

Based on personal observations, I think that MF suffers from a convergence of a bunch of different problems. I agree this is one of the rides that has regressed the most at the park.

1. The ongoing battle between the incredible shrinking seatbelts vs the growing park guest
2. Abuse of exit passes (this has been a real issue the past few years)
3. The new safety procedures (IROC?) that require the ops to visually double check each restraint as well as give all clear one attendant at a time
4. Take it with a grain of salt as it comes from a friend of a friend, but I've heard that there have been electrical issues with the lift so it's running slower and thus takes longer to get back to the ready position

Gemini has been bad too, but with four trains they still don't usually have a huge line.

The ongoing battle between the incredible shrinking seatbelts vs the growing park guest
Abuse of exit passes (this has been a real issue the past few years)

Considering its popularity and ranking, my wish for the 25th anniversary would be a new set of trains with double shocks so no more belts, and you could just walk in the train.

MF would also be way worse if did not have two stations, but the ops at unload have to balance waiting for load with insane people coming up the ramp.

I noticed that Fast Lane screwed up MFs wait time a lot. The line was short, but I waited over an hour. At the merge point, I noticed that for every group of 2-4 people in the stand-by line, a group of 2-4 people was let in from the Fast Lane.

Add that to the other problems mentioned above, and it's even worse.

And for the first time in my life, I waited for almost an hour for freekin' Gemini last May. The line was huge.

I have definitely noticed a decrease in the operations at both SWO and BGT since I moved to Florida 2 1/2 years ago. On slow days, some rides would run 1 train but many still ran 2 trains like Ice Breaker and Sheikra. Now it seems like other than a select few rides like Iron Gwazi and Cheetah Hunt, almost everything is running 1 train on weekdays.

The problem is that they aren't always fast to add a 2nd train or don't add one at all. I was at BGT yesterday and the park was somewhat crowded for a rainy weekday in January because of all the tour groups. Montu was running 1 train with an hour wait most of the day. A few months ago I was at Mako and someone was saying that earlier in the day with 1 train it was a 45 minute wait until they added a 2nd train mid afternoon. Even the newest ride, Serengeti Flyer was only running 1 side with a 30 minute wait.

Both parks really could also use some non coaster rides to help spread out the crowds. SeaWorld really has nothing other than coasters and the water rides and for the size of Busch Gardens to have just Falcon's Fury, 2 water rides, carousel, train, bumper cars, Serengeti Flyer isn't nearly enough.