Polish students unhappy with work at Six Flags New England

First: There is nothing in the article to suggest that the employees were getting paid anything less than the $6.85 agreed upon and since there is no other reference to any reduced amount other than your allegation, I will discount the $5.25 number. So we are looking @ $411.00 a week (about what *I* made during my first college *engineering* internship)

Second: To me, it was unclear as to whether the $75 dorm cost was $75 per person or per shared room. For arguement's sake, we will say per person.

Thrid: let's use your other numbers. $411 minus $75 (housing) minus $70 (food, assuming no meals are included in the dorm or provided by the park) minus $10 (laundry and even my laundry now isnt 10 bucks week, but I'm being conservative) equals $256. Times the 12 weeks of full-time work (june-aug) equals $3072. Minus the cost of the program ($2000) equals $1072. For a summers worth of work, that doesnt sound too bad to me. That's roughly $90 bucks a week that they can spend on any "incidentals" that they see fit (movies, phone calls, pizzas, tennis shoes). Not to mention that there were also parks sponsored trips to places like Niagra Falls and Boston (two places that *I*, an American Citizen, have never been). Moreover, they gained the immersive experience of working within the American culture. That is something that just could not happen if they stayed at home.

Fourth: Their beefs about the working conditions are legit. If they really were not getting the breaks that they deserved, then by all means someone (SFNE) should be held accountable. But it is my feeling that this was not a "foreign exchange worker" problem, but likely a problem that all the SFNE workers faced (I heard a similar complaint from an American worker's father).

Fifth: Even if after a month of these conditions they felt "gypped" yes they could have quit! Then they would have paid the original 2grand less the $256/week for the four weeks which is a net loss of $976. And I'd like you to show me where you can visit another country across the pond for a thousand dollars FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH! (even if you *are* working).

Sixth: Welcome back ravenguy!
lata,
jeremy
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"To get inside this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do

We had many Slovakians at IB the past few summers. Several had also worked previous summers. I don't know how they felt about their pay, but their rooms were taken care of and they ate their meals in the Skyroom (employee area).

On my last work day (Sunday) I asked Jan, who bussed tables, what his travel plans were. He and his brother were travelling to Florida, California, then Vancouver---within 10 days. He had travelled to Alaska last summer after working at the Beach. He seemed very happy!

Wow, I think I agree with 2Hostyl again (gasp!). The only thing that I saw in that article that seemed bad was that they didn't get breaks. Other than that, everything seemed pretty normal to me. 60 hours a week would be a light week for most rides employees at Cedar Point and the money is close to the same. It didn't mention anything about an employee cafeteria or anything like that and the housing price seemed a bit steep assuming it was per person, but it didn't seem all that much different from what I spent my last summer doing and enjoying a whole heck of a lot. I wish I could have gone back this season and in fact, we had a guy from Poland on our crew last year and he's back again this season working Raptor. Go figure!

Also, many guests last year would comment on the accents of some of the foreign workers. I usually just told them that most of the foreigners do a really good job. Better than Americans in some cases, and that most of them were great to work with. I can't say enough about how good the guy we had from Croatia was last year. Never complained about anything and just did his job. That's all anyone can ask!

Having said all that, I do know that the perks of working at various parks differs quite a bit. For example, at CP, you can use your ID to get into the park at any time. You can bring a change of clothes if you want and play in the park after your shift is over without a problem. At SFNE, you must obtain a ticket from Guest Relations (I believe) before you can enter the park and they won't let employees bring in bookbags with clothes or anything. Also, employees over there have a lot less responsibility. They don't walk the lift or transfer trains or anything like that. This info comes from a guy I met working Superman earlier this season who happened to work on Mantis at CP last summer. I didn't think to ask him what they did about food and transportation and things like that, but from the way he made it sound, it was vastly different.

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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
*** This post was edited by MDOmnis on 9/4/2002. ***

If ya dont like it, dont come. If ya here and dont like it, go home. Im sure the Coal Mines of Koldplaceowicz is a much more fun place the SFNE anyway. They should learn when in America, do as the American do or don't as the case maybe.

Maybe its the foreigners perception of America as the land of Milk and Honey getting shattered when they find out its the land of half-and-half and i-cant-believe-its-not-butter butter.

Its that or these students are from Welloffowicz, Poland. *** This post was edited by The Legend on 9/4/2002. ***

"If ya dont like it, dont come. If ya here and dont like it, go home. Im sure the Coal Mines of Koldplaceowicz is a much more fun place the SFNE anyway. They should learn when in America, do as the American do or don't as the case maybe."

That's it...just accept the status quo and smile because we say it is right. Funny, the same argument has been used for years in many situations (voting rights for women and minorities, child labor, even who was and was not a perosn). Obviously these are much bigger issues than working at a minimum wage job, but in some ways the concept is the same. Just because the person with power says that their beliefs are correct does not mean they are just or should be followed.

Moving more towards the specific situation at hand I do not know enough about the pay to know whether what they got was market rate. However, working without a break is a problem, especially when it is a break from something that can both get boring to the worker and dangerous to the rider if the worker neglects thier job because of being overworked. To stay fresh and safe everyone needs a break from work, especially in an amusement park enviornment that can be stressful when dealing with grumpy guests, moving people through and maintaining an important level of guest and employee safety at all times. I am sorry, but the "love it or leave it" mentality helps neither the workers nor the park-goers in this specific situation.

Adam
http://history.amusement-parks.com

Gee!

Do you think there's an exchange program to allow young Americans to work at Six Flags over Warsaw?

Believe it or not most countries don't think 60 hour work weeks are anything resembling "reasonable".

If the students were informed those kind of hours were the norm before-hand that's one thing, but I'd consider 60 hour work weeks to be "draconian" in and of itself.

Most cultures don't take the acquisition of material goods and comforts at the cost of *life* as seriously as Americans do you know...

Adam said, I am sorry, but the "love it or leave it" mentality helps neither the workers nor the park-goers in this specific situation.

My point is I dont believe they deserve any more attention than the normal slob who does the same job ... regardless of if you paid $2K to get there or not.

If they were sold short then they have every right to complain. The conditions of the exchange shoudve been made clear to them right at the start. Many Foreigners would jump at the opportunity to work in the US for this wage and a roof over there head. It may not be fair, but you cant fix it for all, I cant see why an effort should be made to appease these few.

The way I see it, this is a cultural exchange, right? Well thats what getting, right? Time to wake up and smell the coffee. Americans get up and go to work just like every other country. I really think the problem is that this is not the America they thought they would get.

As a native New Zealand and frequent traveller to the US, I can tell you that the perception of America and the real America to a foreigner are two totally different things. I could see how their situation would be one of total disillusionment. It is not California, Hawaii or New York. Its a theme park alongside a motorway whoopee! However I dont feel any remorse for them.

Obviously, SFNE needs to re-examine its exchange policy too. Dont they have enough problems without importing 'Cheap Labour'!
*** This post was edited by The Legend on 9/4/2002. ***

Legend, it isn't about going after cheap labor. Finding enough people here in the states to work amusement park jobs is becoming harder and harder. The service industry is growing every day and all those companies are trying to attract young people who will work for minimal salaries.

The trend over the past 10 years or so is that young people are leaning towards jobs in malls where they can get clothing or merchandise discounts. If you are going to work in fast food, why would you go to an amusement park away from home, requiring you to pay for housing and food when you can stay at home and do the same job?

For a while I thought Cedar Point should provide free housing or free meals to attract more kids but I am sure that would be abused.

One thing folks seem to have "glossed over" in the hunt for (federally-mandated) 15 minute beaks and (also federally-mandated) overtime pay for hours in excess of 40....a LOT of times these "benefits" only accrue to those employees who actually speak up and DEMAND their rights....I know some of you are saying "who's that Marxist", but frankly, I lean more towards Chico Marx than Karl.....

bill, so thankful I don't work 60 hour weeks anymore, but I'd be embarrassed t admit how recently it was that a $400 paycheck would have been a very welcome sight....

Overtime pay is not mandated for seasonal jobs.

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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

Man, just another way for "the man" to screw the poor working folks....good thing I've never had a "seasonal job", my overtime (84 Lumber) was thankfully *paid*....have to admit getting a large thrill from watching Home Depot put those suckers OUT of business....tried to convince 'em

I don't understand how anyone in the US thinks "the man" is keeping "poor working folks" down. You get paid for the skill of your job. If you want more, train and get a better job.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"Let's stop saying 'don't quote me,' because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying." - Dogma, KMFDM

well Jeff, it's been my experience in working WITH the "poor working folks" that they don't normally have the resources information-wise to do that. Sort of like how our gov't won't pay for states to teach kids how to NOT get pregnant IF they're going to have sex...(and they WILL)...I'm not saying "abstinence education" doesn't have a place in the curriculum, but keeping INFORMATION away from kids, that's just downright stupid...."abstinence-only education" as supported by the Federal government, basically takes the approach that "if you don't listen to us (read: abstain), then you're not worth the time it takes to educate you to protect yourself from pregnancy, disease"...

I am basically against "giving" to anyone that can go out and do for themselves.....but I am even more opposed to keeping people in the dark about their rights and what's available to them, etc. Seems to me the elderly in the US (via AARP, etc.) have done a darn fine job making sure the gov't protections apply to THEM, I just want equal protection for all and a society where EVERYONE is fully aware of their rights AND responsiblities....then it's up to THEM to "make it happen"....of course, I know I'm not your average citizen....I was born on an "Animal Farm", lol..... *** This post was edited by rollergator on 9/5/2002. ***

gator - Stop with the crazy talk. Every single person in this country has the same opportunities and resources available to them.

Hell, I could be president one day if I work hard enough.

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"The perfect machine, you seemed to be, when I built you up in my mind..." - Reverend Jon Autry *** This post was edited by chris on 9/5/2002. ***

chris, I'd vote for you....hell, I'd vote for nearly anyone who doesn't come from the "land of privilege" and has enough sense to know what they're talking about....(I guess it's pretty apparent how I feel about the justice dep't. spending MY tax dollars to clothe a statue, fer cryin' out loud)......

The problem appears to be the program literature did not adequately convey what working in an amusement park job really entails. There are many companies who work with the program, have for years, and many of them are 40 hour a week jobs. Only the amusement park jobs have longer hours.

These students worked the same hours and in the same conditions as all other employees, including Americans. Considering a shared dorm room at the University of Michigan, food not included (rooms with food included is more), is $6K a year which averages to roughly $136 per month per student (based on 44 weeks as most move out during the summer months). I can't see the conditions they lived in were much worse than some of the tiny dorm rooms I've seen.

Their expectations were much higher, and were not met. That's unfortunate, but I don't see it as a SF problem. I see it as a problem with the program not getting the facts straight and passing them on to the students beforehand.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead

Sex ed isn't a very good comparison (and I agree with your position, by the way), as that's something that frankly I prefer to teach my kids as soon as they're old enough to speak. Wear a raincoat. ;)

But what I take issue with is the suggestion that the government is trying to keep people poor and unskilled.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"Let's stop saying 'don't quote me,' because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying." - Dogma, KMFDM

The point isn't that the government is trying to keep people poor and unskilled, the point is that they're not doing enough to help them get skills.

Anyone who thinks that everyone in America is born with the same opportunities needs to wake up from the dream world that your government has sold to you.

Where you end up is largely *largely* dictated by where you start out. Yes, some people manage to move up, but similarly others fall down. And if you think it only has to do with personal motivation you're crazy.

The cost of education is flat out insane, and the lack of a socialized health care plan has many people staying in crap jobs that they hate just so they don't lose their life savings and end up on the street in the event of an extended illness.

I can't believe that *anyone* can say with a straight face that the "opportunities and resources" available to someone born into a rich and powerful family is even *vaguely* equal to someone born in the Near-North side of Chicago.

Our country has had a strata system since day one when the founding fathers decreed that only rich, white, landowners were "people" for the purposes of voting. The system has changed on the surface level (ie: minorities and women can vote), but look who's still getting elected, by and large you've got rich, white guys. The more things change the more they stay the same...rich people are usually the only ones who have enough dough in the bank to go to the prestigious ivy schools, and to make the kind of connections necessary for a big political run.

If you guys want to deny the reality of the situation be my guest, but the American dream, is just that, a dream, a modern myth to keep the poor people in line.

I can only hope that one day people can *wake up*.

C-Bomb said:

"I can't believe that *anyone* can say with a straight face that the "opportunities and resources" available to someone born into a rich and powerful family is even *vaguely* equal to someone born in the Near-North side of Chicago."

Since you're quoting me, I'm asuming you're directing this towards me.

I was being sarcastic.

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"The perfect machine, you seemed to be, when I built you up in my mind..." - Reverend Jon Autry