Please visit the smaller parks
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Be sure to visit Holiday World. Best park in the world!
Mark W. Baruth said:
You're painting with a much wider brush than I am, Jeremy. Nowhere in my last paragraph did I state that all large parks were guilty of such crimes, nor did I state that all small parks were innocent. I simply stated that I prefer to give my money to parks that do things the right way, whether they be megaparks or family operations.
While not explicitly naming any parks, you certainly did do this.
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So if you want to continue to go to those parks, go ahead. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so. What I am saying is that you're wrong for insulting others with differing opinions.
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You accused all of your oposition for being lemmings who will cause every park in the nation into a gum covered hell hole.
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I think that John's statements about paying full price, etc., fall into the same category. By supporting the smaller parks, you are helping the "true" entrepreneurs and those who embody the spirit of the rollercoaster fan.
I don't feel the need to make personal, emotional attacks when defending my position. I enjoy a spirted, topical debate, so you can pick on me all you like
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First, a true entrepreneur isn't made by the type of park they run. It's just a diffrent style.
I don't believe that there is a "spirit" of roller coaster fans. Using this as a reason to get someone to attend a park is moronic. YOu claim to enjoy topical debate, however half of your last post was about SFA in particular, Jazz, and spirit.
*** This post was edited by phydeux on 6/11/2002. ***
*** This post was edited by phydeux on 6/12/2002. ***
All debate aside, I find that the smaller parks can be a refreshing change from the large corporate parks.
There is something to be said for the enthusiast who can enjoy Six Flags Magic Mountain and Waldameer Park at the same time...
What side of the bed are you rolling out on?
God forbid I use a comparison to help people understand my point. It would certainly help if you did the same, as your last paragraph was indecipherable.
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Doesn't it seem as though morons always have the caps lock on?
And to Vertigo: Your espousal of the qualities of Lake Compounce, while interesting enough, do really support any argument. I could proffer that @ Six Flags AstroWorld a buddy of mine tried to buy a cup of coffee, they didnt sell any at that shop, but they made her a cup from the employee's stash and gave it to her for free. But what does that really say? All it says is that those for @ SFAW wanted to do what they could to help out a guest. I've never berated Compounce. I have no reason to. But not every small park is like Lake Compounce nor is every corporate/big park like Six Flags New England.
Oh, and just cause a place has been around for a while doesnt automatically excuse it from being poorly maintained. But hey, if you dont like me saying Quassy, fine. Take a gander over @ the Conneaut Lake Blue Streak. Show me ONE enthusiast who has ridden that ride over the past few years that didnt wonder if the thing was going to topple over. Every report I've read has mentioned that it looked bad.
But I'm not even supposed to be typing anymore...
lata,
jeremy
--please, someone stop me...
2 words.
Kennywood. Park. It's not as small as some other parks, but it deserves attention! (There is no coaster with as much air as JACK RABBIT)
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Why do they report power outages on TV?
Hey, I am visiting Indiana Beach in a couple of weeks and hopefully Adventureland (Matt Scott I am going to email you) this summer for my small park visits.
I am also visiting two large parks: SF Great America and Cedar Point.
So I am getting the best of both worlds! It doesn't really matter what gumhole a park can become. When you have a really large theme park with LOTS of people entering through the gates, that is going to happen. No large corporate park is going to have a perfect cleaning ability.
So let's get past this crazy stuff and RIDE SOME COASTERS :-D!
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Off to CP in August, first to IB in late June though!! YEA!!!! :-D It will be a good summer!
Questions:
smles@ilstu.edu
S00perGIR,
I don't know...after riding Screeching Eagle at Lesourdsville Lake, I think SE wins...Hands up. Everyone talks about parks building a stand-up wooden coaster as a joke, but SE fits the bill on its' hills...WOWZA!!!
I spent more time out of my seat than in my seat after the lift hill!
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Posting, "Me too" like some brain dead AOLer. I ought to to the world a favor, and cap you like old yeller...
Kennywood happens to be one of my favorite parks anywhere.
Mark- I am at a loss for what comparison you are trying to make, and I fixed the paragraph.
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Texas Coasters... wow I'm lucky... IM me if you feel like talking about coasters.
Personally, I define "bigger" parks as one's that are owned by the big corporate chains...Smaller parks, then inversely are the parks that are still "on their own" and usually privately held...
And before anyone flames me for my definition, I understand I have a few "oddballs" caused by that definition such as calling MIA a "big" park and Hershey a "small" park...But as with most definitions, there are grey areas...
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Posting, "Me too" like some brain dead AOLer. I ought to to the world a favor, and cap you like old yeller...
jeremy
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Besides, if we were really shutting down people we disagreed with, would Jeremy (2Hostyl) still be around? :) I think not. - Jeff 1/24/02
Small, big, whatever.....
A park that does it RIGHT, I'm all over it.....and I'll have the t-shirt to prove it. If I go to a "smaller" park and don't have a good time (not likely, but it could happen), then I'll take my wallet with me as I leave. If I go to a "large" park and have a GREAT time, then I'll leave with a big smile, some souvenirs, and an emptier wallet. What's my point? (glad you asked)...
Smaller parks that RE-INVEST, a la ZOOMBabwe, LoCoSuMo, etc. recognize that the industry is generally governed by a "grow or die" rule. If your park has nothing new to offer, guests may not return year-in, year-out. If you buy new toys to impress your guests, and treat them as GUESTS, they'll keep coming back. Conversely, if your parks' new "attraction" is the increased parking fee, then the timeline may be running short....
So, the moral of the story is something like this: Small parks that re-invest and innovate and *create* a niche for themselves will thrive, those that don't, won't. It's not really a matter of whether I personally want a park to survive, it's whether the park has the drive and inspiration to succeed....that's why you'll be able to find me at SRM for as long as the Kochs own the place....
bill, jumping down off the soap-box......
*** This post was edited by rollergator on 6/12/2002. ***
SaxPlayer said:
So I am getting the best of both worlds! It doesn't really matter what gumhole a park can become. When you have a really large theme park with LOTS of people entering through the gates, that is going to happen. No large corporate park is going to have a perfect cleaning ability.
Maybe not "perfect", but IOA has probably got close to the most perfect clean-up system of any large corporate theme park. Did you know that they repaint the facades of each building in the park every single NIGHT after closing? I saw that on "Behind the Scenes at Universal" on The Travel Channel and was incredibly impressed. And this was AFTER I had already been there and seen for myself how clean that place is kept during the day!
As far as the big parks vs. small parks debate......I'll just put in my 2 cents and say that if it's a park that is clean, has good rides, and serves decent food at decent prices, I don't care how big or small it is. I'm just there to have a good time!
Having just completed my 12-day SRM Odyssey I can say that I much prefer the small, traditional park atmosphere to the large corporate parks. During the 12 days we were in the midwest we visited Holiday World [2 days], Indiana Beach [2 days], Idlewild, Del Grosso's, Lakemont, Waldameer, Wyandott, Conneaut Lake, and 2 days at Kennywood, which looks and feels like a small traditional park despite its size. The only major corporate parks we were at are Michigan's Adventure [for 3 hours], CP [for an hour], and SFWoA [for 90 minutes]. The smaller parks ROCKED, especially Conneaut, Idlewild, and Lakemont.
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NUTS - National Union of Thrill Seekers! [Brought to you by the maker of 'LoCoSuMo!']
Since when was MA 'big'? They retained their existing management and still don't do things the way the other CF parks do....yet.
Then again, I visited MA three weeks after the purchase was complete....when rideops were still telling the riders to "Holllaaa!" and high-fived them on the way into the station.
What's truly sad is that the traditional parks face the challenge of the 'bigger is better' perception held by many in the GP. I went to IB dressed in navy blue and my MF cap (because it matched) and couldn't believe how many people thought it must be hard to like Cornball Express or LoCoSuMo after visiting CP. In truth, CornBall's got better air than any CP coaster at 1/2 to 1/3 the size.
-'Playa
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
If anything I think visiting the larger parks has made me appreciate the smaller parks *more*. When I was first starting out in the hobby the concept of going to small parks like Kennywood that "only* have 5 coasters seemed like it was a sure road to letdown. All I can say is that I'm really glad I took the leap and started visiting the smaller guys because it's really hard to go back for this enthusiast.
I still enjoy the corporate themers in large part because of my optimistic and "rose coloured glasses" way of viewing parks...basically unless something cataclysmic happens I'll probably have a good day at any park. That said I've found the more small parks I visit the more I appreciate what they have to offer.
This common "bigger is better" view that's held by the GP is something that all of us who've had the pleasure of visiting world class independents like Knoebel's, HW and KW should try our best to fight tooth and nail.
I was really happy last year when Discovery decided to use the Golden Tickets for picking it's "Top 10" coasters for this very reason, because people could see that (for the 2001 edition at least...) despite it's larger size MF still wasn't as loved as Magger and that Raven, in spite of it's small stature, is one of the most highly regarded coasters around.
You can imagine how unhappy I was *this* year when Discovery basically decided to pick the top 10 more or less randomly and in the process helped push the "massive coasters *must* be great" concept further by having a ride like SOB highly ranked on their show when it doesn't even crack top 25 in any reputable poll. This isn't to slander anyone on here who loves the ride but let's face it people, I like some rides that no one else cares for (Steel Phantom anyone? :-) but I'm not under the illusion that they're top 10 material for the majority. The same could be said for say the SFMM Goliath on the steel end of the show, yes it's huge but most people who've travelled extensively don't rank it very highly. (again, not to say that there aren't fans, in fact, it looks like my kind of hyper as well but see the point made above...)
I don't have a problem with odd rides being chosen for shows but it *does* bother me when you have a case like this years edition of top coasters where it's pretty much dominated by the current or recent record breakers.
We need to help bolster the notoriety of great smaller parks and try our best to get out to a few of them on our larger coaster swings. Without our support (both monetary and word of mouth) more small parks will end up going the way of Whalom and Visionland which is something that I don't think *anyone* on here wants.
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* The Legend @ HW
* Superman: Ride of Steel @ SFNE
* Mondial Top Scan
Playa - I agree with you about MI Adventure and that they do not do things like other CF parks, but I don't mean that as a compliment. If my visit last Tuesday is any indication Cedar Fair better get in there quick and do something about MIA's ride ops. With the exception of the awesome Timbers crew all the other ride ops I encountered seemed like preprogrammed animatronics who showed little to no enjoyment of their jobs.
The op on Big Dipper neglected to check all the lap bars and dispatched the train with at least two restraints totally unlocked, including mine. I had to lock it as we climbed the lift. Now I wasn't worried about falling out but I was worried about the little kids riding in the train. The crews on Wolverine, Corkscrew, and Zach's has two speeds: slow and slower, which made even minimal lines crawl.
Even with Timbers, which didn't blow me away, my experience at the park didn't leave me wanting to return anytime soon.
As for IB's Cornball...that sucker kicked some serious BUTT and will definitely end up in my Top 5. It is CCI at its creamy goodness ;-)
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NUTS - National Union of Thrill Seekers! [Brought to you by the maker of 'LoCoSuMo!']
*** This post was edited by Mamoosh on 6/12/2002. ***
With my Pennsalvania coaster trip coming up during July 25th-30th. Theres a real good chance I may stop at a few of the smaller parks: Conneaut Lake, Lakemont, Williams Grove and Idlewild Park. Two of them will be a winner ;).
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Valleyfair Security 2002! 8Years working at Valleyfair :)!
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