PKI Smoking Ban?

Wow, such a variation of opinions from all sides.

Smokers who don't want pushed aside. Smokers who don't mind. Non-smokers who agree with the park. Non-smokers who don't agree.

Good stuff.

It makes me wonder how the extremely limited sample of people here corresponds to real world trends. I have a feeling it's not too far off.

I have a suspicion that it isn't a 'vast majority' that finds it offensive. I really think there's a 'lead by example' approach to this whole smoking thing. If we (we being the 'invisible hand') tell you that you're disgusted enough, pretty soon you'll think everyone is and beging to believe it yourself.

Then again, 51% is still a majority and pleases the most in one motion.

However, the stats I find all put the rate of population that smokes at somewhere between 20 and 30 percent. If just another 20 to 30 percent aren't bothered, then the majority doesn't mind.

They're just being told they do. :)

I did read a report that said the agenda is to reduce that number to around 12% by 2010. Things like restrictions, rising prices and attaching stigma to the act are certainly driving things in that direction.

Even if I didn't currently smoke (and heck, I even think about quitting once I stop and figure how much it costs - the health & stigma issues don't bother me), that would kind off piss me off that people are being indirectly forced into lifestyle decisions.

Even if smokers are screwing an already burdened health care system (which is the only argument I'll even remotely buy as motivation for ending smoking in this country), then why not increased rates for smokers? If you want to smoke, you fund the additional health care you cause. Seems simple.

I don't want to have to visit that dude on the corner to score a pack of smokes. ;)

As for the issue of public smoking, I can't argue against a private property owner not allowing the practice, but citywide or statewide bans (like NY and Cali) are stupid examples of being strong-armed. What if I'm a restaraunt owner that wants to cater to smokers and doesn't mind the lost business from offended non-smokers? I'm not even being given the choice. It works on the flip side too. The solution is simple - if you want to smoke, you visit a 'smoking allowed" restaraunt. If smoking bothers you, you visit a non-smoking restaraunt. Too many choices being made for us under the current scenarios.

Just a stream of thoughts. :)

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lakecrystal said:
I agree that no one should smoke in a queue line, but outdoors in the wide open? those who complain of that should never burn their burnable trash, should nevr build a campfire, should never go to a party with a bon fire.

Cause if cigarette smoking kills you as you stand out in the wide open, then you should probably fall over dead next to a camp fire. sorry, I'm not even a smoker, just seems like a sissy thing to cry over since the non smokers will not win the battle over the smokers.

Cripes your outdoors, I could see if you were standing in line or in a house or something, but out in the wide open? words of advice, never go camping, never burn your burnables because you'll probably collapse in the shear terror of the dreaded smoke.

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There's more to it than that. Some of us, myself included, have asthma that starts acting up really bad around cigarette smoke. I can hold by breath, walk by and still end up getting a little in my nostrils which can cause my asthma to act up.

Camp fires? Burning trash? No problems at all. Cigarettes? I have problems handling cig smoke.

Several cities/towns in Colorado have imposed the indoor smoking ban. Boulder, Fort Collins, Greeley and Longmont all have it. Now as a person who rarely smokes, basically only when drinking or full of adrenaline, it doesn't bother me. I actually like not having to smell smoke while eating.

But I don't like the laws imposing a smoking ban. As it's been pointed out several times in this post, PKI is private property and can impose whatever rules they want for guests to their property. But these laws give the property owners no such rights. If a bar owner wants to allow smoking and take a hit in patronage because non-smokers stop coming, then that's his choice.

At least a grandfather clause would be sufficient, allowing all existing bars to make their own choice while new establishments have to be non-smoking. But as it stands now you almost always have to walk through a thick cloud of smoke outside the entrance because that's the only place it's allowed. On a related note, one of my friendly barkeeps has told me that the number of people walking out on tabs has increased because they say they're going out for a cig and then leave.

For the people that love these types of laws, aren't you getting worried about big brother? Sooner or later they'll start cracking down on something you do like. Me thinks me remember some congressman trying to crack down on coasters, hmmm.

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that would kind off piss me off that people are being indirectly forced into lifestyle decisions

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I'd agree with you, but I'm too busy filling out my tax return's Schedule A with the itemized deduction for my mortgage interest... ;)

"Ahhh, if only pot were legal. That's a MUCH more pleasant "smell".

-Tina"

I couldn't agree more. But then, somebody would complain at me for lighting up on the midway. ;)

I am a non-smoker. Generally speaking, smoking does not offend me unless it is in close quarters. Even then, I don't mind most of the time. I have friends that smoke and I hang out with them at their apartment, I don't expect them to quit smoking. I even allow it in my car. I guess namely because I smoke other things in my car. I think some other people are on to something with the alcohol too. I feel that it is far more dangerous than smoking. I also cannot stand these stupid commercials that are anti-pot smoking. I am always laughing at them with my roommate because they are so ridiculous. Well, that's my .02. I don't think it is even worth the .02 *** Edited 2/28/2005 7:34:25 PM UTC by Coasterbuzzer***

Wow - chalk up another that's pissed he didn't click into this topic earlier ...

Well, while I am (strangely) not on Gonch and Friends' side in this one, I do see their point. I cannot stand the smell of cigarettes - those minty ones are another issue, but regular cigarettes make me gag something fierce. I put up with it in places like pool halls, and concerts because it's sort of a necessary evil - those activities were sort of "born" in places that allow smoking, so if you're going to partake of those, it comes with the territory.

But, it really annoys me when there's a "wall" of 4 or 5 people in a row walking completely across a midway, all smoking, all blowing it right back into my face and I have no choice but to breathe it until there's a gap to walk past them (since being smokers, they can't stand but walk slow ;) ) or drop back, but dropping back does nothing more than mix the smells of the various cigarette types which is worse than full-bore from just one person. Heck sometimes my anti-smoke sense is good enough that I can gag on the smell coming from a car in front of me on the highway whose occupants are blowing smoke out the windows towards my ventilation system.

I rarely run into one of you "courteous" smokers. Almost every smoker I run into in a park is rude, beligerant, usually posesses the other two nasty odors mentioned (BO and $3 perfume/cologne) and of course, has not learned the "blow the smoke upwards" routine that apparently only those that attend ska/punk concerts have learned. I could even put aside smoking on the midways as a "necessary evil" if the smoke went up, but it's just the complete lack of courtesy of keeping that smoke low to the ground and in my face.

Gonch's 51% comment and the looming discussion of government intereference in our daily lives is an eerie coinsidence, no? ;)

And I sure ain't complainin' about that Schedule A - that bad boy might be my ticket to Alton Towers this year ;)

--Brett, who thinks the "Life sucks, buy a helmet" people should start their own country - might be the last resort for saving sanity ... or not.

Ugh. I just had a flashback to my youth, which seemed to have been filled with those nasty clove cigs. Ugh.

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Coasterbuzzer said:
"Ahhh, if only pot were legal. That's a MUCH more pleasant "smell".

-Tina"

I couldn't agree more. But then, somebody would complain at me for lighting up on the midway. ;)

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Makes me think of LeSourds....er, Americana, the only time I've EVER encountered an employee getting toasty in a park, and that RIGHT smack dab on the midway....good times! :)

Ah well, Coughing Eagle was *that good*....:)

edit: Brian Noble, those cloves are making a HUGE comeback on college campuses....but then again, you already knew that, right? ;)
*** Edited 2/28/2005 7:54:58 PM UTC by rollergator***

Just a thought here: Are they gonna ban smoke in Catholic churchs? that incense is the worst i've ever smelled.... :)

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Makes me think of LeSourds....er, Americana, the only time I've EVER encountered an employee getting toasty in a park, and that RIGHT smack dab on the midway....good times!

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I had a suspicion that the dude running the train at Lakemont was feeling pretty good during our visit this past summer.

Made me kind of jealous.

Get a buzz going and drive people around on the little train? Where do I sign up?

I'd be the best damn train guy they ever had! Employee of the year material even. ;)

Gonch/Bill, you guys should come to Camden Park sometime. :-D

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CPLady said:

BTW, speaking of government control, I wonder if anyone has heard the salt issue yet? The government now wants to cut our consumption of salt because it's bad for us.

I can say one thing...at my age, by the time all of these "bad for you" things are abolished, I'll likely have one foot in the grave anyway and won't have to deal with it.

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Amen sista! :-D

Salt? now that is getting out of hand. I gotta have my salt. :-) Next thing you know my Diet Coke will be in danger. Well, considering the fuss with aspartamine I am surprised it's not banned already.

-Tina

*** Edited 2/28/2005 8:13:14 PM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***

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Impulse-ive said:

Gonch's 51% comment and the looming discussion of government intereference in our daily lives is an eerie coinsidence, no?

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I'm a prophet, the sooner we all accept it, the better off things will be. ;)

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FLYINGSCOOTER said:

Just a thought here: Are they gonna ban smoke in Catholic churchs?

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Can we just ban the churches? I'd be ok with that. The idea of organized religion is offensive to me (on many levels), yet I'm subjected to billboards, bumper stickers, music, TV shows, even full networks dedicated to it's practice. I'm also forced to drive by these offensive buildings because the roads I need to use to get from point A to point B run near them. Hell, the more agressive of them knock at my door. They're invading my personal home!

Churches definitely need to go.

Hey! That's an idea. If people are going to keep being 'offensive', then let's just ban places. No one is allowed in public because of the threat of being exposed to something that they don't like.

No more restaraunts because they might not allow smoking which offends smokers. Then again, they might allow it and offend non-smokers. Then again, they might serve meat offending people who believe in animal rights. They might only serve chinese food which could offend people wanting to eat only mexican. What if they said hello to me and I prefer to be greeted in some bizarre ancient sanskrit language? What if my wife bought a new dress and they didn't compliment her on how beautiful she looked in it? What if they're coffee was served hot and someone spilled it on themselves? They could be injured!

We clearly just need to ban places.

Problem solved.

As I said many times before, everything went downhill after that lady spilled coffee on her lap at McDonalds so many years ago. Now everyone is either lawsuit happy or "offended" by...... SOMETHING.

-Tina

Gonch, you got my vote! problem is, if you offend someone, you might get banned... :)

A few years back I didn't mind smoking, and even had a few cigarettes every once in a while. Eventually I discovered the local cigar shop, and since then I've become increasingly turned off by cigarettes. Sometimes I'll be fine, and even enjoy the smell, but more often than not I'll get a little headache, no biggie. I chew tobacco, and some aren't too fond of that, so I have no problem with people getting their little nicotine fix. I'd rather see parks work on minimizing queue smoking than completly ban it on the midways. It's really not that hard to dodge a smoker unless your in line.

You're right, flyingscooter! The act of banning things could be offensive to some.

It's the lone fatal flaw in my plan...

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As I said many times before, everything went downhill after that lady spilled coffee on her lap at McDonalds so many years ago.

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Then might I warn you not to read through the latest Dragster lawsuit thread in the news section of CB? You'll go nuts. :)

*** Edited 2/28/2005 8:25:33 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

I think they should ban lawsuits on TTD!!!
Who's with me on this! :)

I think we need to start "Qui-cher-b*tchin-buzz" ;)

These threads rock!

Gonch, you've offended me by not capitalizing FLYINGSCOOTER's name ... you'll be hearing from my lawyers ...

The general annoyance raises my blood pressure and causes undue stress.

Churches are killing me!

EDIT - forgot to add the real rebuttal :)

So what percentage of park goers (or people in general) suffer cigarette smoke triggered asthma.

My guess is not many.

We're catering to the vocal minority.

*** Edited 2/28/2005 8:47:24 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Well since asthma is just a state of mind anyway ... ;)

--Brett, really, honestly, not just trying to fan the flames ;)