PKI Smoking Ban?

The great thing about the countless smoking debates that pop up here every once in awhile, I have Gonch to do the battles and save me the headache. :)

Right up there with you Gonch. I to am one of the most courteous smokers in existence as well. It actually pisses me off that SFGAm allows smoking in the midways but has absolutely no ashtrays or those smokeless canteens that snuff out a cigarette when you put it in.

I am all for the designated smoking areas. I say bring it on and get on the smokers that continue to light up on the midways, queue lines, etc.

Still trying to figure out Gonch why at 25 years of age you decided to take on this habit. Don't you think you passed the peer pressure era by that time? :)

I didn't have friends until I was 25. ;)

You know the thing with designated smoking areas is that they have to be somewhere - you're still going to have to be near smokers in some capacity, but rather than one or two you get a nice big nicotine cloud.

The best ever is the lone smoking spot in the Camp Minnie-Mickey area at Animal Kingdom.

It's right across from the character meeting areas and beside the only restroom. Everyone taking their kids to meet characters has to come into relatively close proximity and anyone needing to use the restroom practically has to walk through it.

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It actually pisses me off that SFGAm allows smoking in the midways but has absolutely no ashtrays or those smokeless canteens that snuff out a cigarette when you put it in.

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Yeah, and those are the times when you'll hear people complain about people dropping butts.

I usually drop it, snuff it with my foot and put it in a trash can if no other means of disposal is available.

I'm not there to ugly things up or disturb anyone. :)

I hate smoking. It smells bad, I have severe allergies to smoke(among other things like B.O. & $3-$300 perfume), and I have bronchitis (cronic). I don't like to cough or sneeze.

But I'm 100% on the Gonch side here. Why? Because even on a midway in a park with 300,000 people, I can easily not smell or have to deal with cig smoke from someone walking in open air.

I don't condone smoking by any means, but it is someone's choice. If they banned chocolate, I'd be right there with the smokers. And I'm not one for 'smoker's rights', since smoking is a choice that any gov. or private entity can regulate away.

But I've never once had a problem walking down a midway and smelling the slightest bit(and that is always the case unless someone blows it in your face, and as has been said, that is not a smoking issue, but an idiot issue) of cig smoke. Why? Because it is out in the open. Heck, my allergies are so bad that smoke from just cooking can start me off, but I've never had cig smoke out in the open do that to me.

I don't like it in Queues because that is closed in. Read my TR from CP this past summer and scroll down to Mantis (titled 'A TR of Epic Proportions') to see how I feel.

And I don't like it in buildings. But someone smoking whilst walking from BORG to Top Gun isn't going to bother me one bit. And that little puff o'smoke isnt' going to do any more damage to you than headbanging on an Arrow or Vekoma at a park, and certainly isn't going to throw shards of metal into your skin, strand you upside down, or come off it's track more than 2 times in a decade in a certain SoCal park and kill people. It isn't going to fling you out of your seat because the Mfg. didn't design it right either.

Yay for Paramount limiting smoking, but I don't think penalizing someone on a midway is going to 'make things better' by much...

-PsudeoTekno, who'd much rather ban perfume and make deodorant at the front gate mandatory, since both can linger even in open air for many square feet from the offender. *** Edited 2/28/2005 5:10:28 AM UTC by Somebody***

Funny, I couldn't find cancer by city water anywhere on the CDC's Web site as a leading cause of death. ;)

I guess what you're getting at here is that, "Life sucks, buy a helmet," and I'm willing to go that far with you. It's just that certain activities pose a more obvious risk than others. *** Edited 2/28/2005 5:44:13 AM UTC by Jeff***

This conversation is so very respectful, and I for one am surprised to see that.

I just wanted to add a few "me too's".

I am a non-smoker, but I respect the rights of others to smoke if they wish. I, as well, have a problem with the slightest smell of smoke, even outdoors. It sometimes suddenly hits me and my reflex is to get away from it as fast as possible. My eyes water within the most transparent of cigarette clouds. I'm not around smoke very much, which makes it's effects much more intense.

I was impressed with Disney parks because of the designated smoking areas. Smokers mostly seemed to accept it. It helped me to enjoy my day more. When I spotted a group of smokers in one of these areas, I simply dodged the "nicotine cloud".

I rarely make a big deal about someone smoking near me; instead I just get away. I feel that i shouldn't have to run in the opposite direction when I smell it, but I also understand how smokers feel about being able to light up when they have the urdge.

One way to fight queue smokers is to carry in your fanny pack a fully loaded mini super-soaker ;)

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Jeff said:
Funny, I couldn't find cancer by city water anywhere on the CDC's Web site as a leading cause of death. ;)

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You do know I severely dislike you, right? ;)

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I guess what you're getting at here is that, "Life sucks, buy a helmet,"

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Essentially. Same with the lawsuit thread.

Denis Leary is great.

Although I have been known to spout the more reactive and less proactive - "Life sucks, eat a cookie"

Actually, in lieu of this thread, all participants should be required to watch (or listen to, but watching is better) the first half hour or so of Leary's "No Cure For Cancer" - good stuff, especially given the conversation here. :)

*** Edited 2/28/2005 6:28:35 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

I love that super soaker idea Dex. Except I'll carry my mini super soaker in something other than a fanny pack. ;)

*** Edited 2/28/2005 6:17:58 AM UTC by Rihard***

For those of you who have never been to PKD, the line for Grizzly goes thru a high wooden walkway in the woods. When I was a kid one year, some guy smoking in line threw his cigarette down near a tree. It caught fire and several of us in line including me started shouting. A ride op came down the steps from the station with a fire extinguisher, but by the time he reached the fire it had grown quite a bit. He put it out but there was a large black burnt circular area by the tree with black marks going up one side of the tree. Year after year my brother and I would point out the spot where the fire was and each year the ring got smaller and smaller till it eventually went away.

There are many disadvantages to smoking besides risk of illness from second hand smoke. It is a fire hazard. It is gross. It is irritating. People who smoke seem to get temporary trashcan amnesia. It takes something away from the pleasant atmosphere. Most people just don’t like it.

This PKI rule has nothing to do with rights other than PKI’s right over their private property. If they wanted to pass a rule against men and fat women wearing bare midriff shirts, that would be their right and I would be all for it. If the government was passing a law against smoking outdoors anywhere, that would be an issue of the rights of the individuals involved.

We don’t allow people to piss on the midway because it is gross and would offend most people, so there are designated places for you to do that. We don’t allow people to drink on the midways either even though that really does not affect anyone directly. You really should not be surprised with the direction the smoking bans are headed.

Schools ban gum chewing because the many kids cannot figure out how to get their gum in the trash. Ever seen a smoker drop a cigarette butt or ashes? Yeah, I know, most of them stand right next to an ashtray the entire time they smoke outdoors and never make any mess at all. It is just a few trouble makers that walk wherever without a thought and then do what they have to do. Yeah right. ALL smokers are litterbugs. Yep, you too.

As for the health hazard/pollution, comparing it to driving cars or something worthwhile is comparing apples and oranges. If a few thousand people in a year die from traffic accidents we don’t ban driving because we need to drive. There is a benefit that outweighs the cost. If a few thousand people in the same year died from roller coasters, what do you think would happen? There is no comparable benefit to coasters as there is to driving cars, just like there is no comparable benefit to smoking as there is to cars. Pollution is not immoral in the sense that you either don’t allow any or you allow all. It is cost benefit analysis. It is just as silly for you to say that you should be allowed to smoke in public because people drive in public as it is for me to say I can change my own oil and dump the old oil in the trash or down the sewer because you can smoke in public.

Well then, since it is not an easy-answer, black-and-white type issue, how do we make a decision? Here in America, private parties do what is in their best interest and politicians do the will of those who elected them. It is Adam Smith’s invisible hand. If you have problem with it, you can talk to the hand.

BTW, the invisible hand is smacking you smokers pretty hard. My guess is in a decade or so smoking will either just be allowed in the privacy of your own home or will be banned completely.

I agree, and it's scary to think that our government has any damn say about what we do to our bodies, whether it's smoking, drinking, etc.

I just think it's all a matter of common courtesy that goes both ways......if you are a smoker (in an amusement park or otherwise) you should have enough respect for others to either wait (nothing more disgusting than someone smoking in line) or go somewhere where nobody will be directly affected by the second-hand smoke.

If you are a non-smoker you should just not worry about it and let them do what they need to do.

Ahhh, if only pot were legal. That's a MUCH more pleasant "smell".

-Tina

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RavenTTD said:
If they wanted to pass a rule against men and fat women wearing bare midriff shirts, that would be their right and I would be all for it.

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Well, no more ACE events at PKI. :) (kidding, of course)

Ugh, I'm mad I'm in this late on the annual "Great Smoking Debate". Pretty much Gonch and Chitown said everything I would say (as per usual). Just a few things I'd like to chime in on.

Re The Mole: I agree. PKD (and Carowinds if they follow suit) are going to face some flack for this. Virginia and the Carolinas make too much money from tobacco and have been havens for smokers. I'm interested to see the reaction.

More on economics: Question: Did PKI sell cigarettes inside the park last year? If so, do you think they will continue?

Re Tina: While I dont doubt that you personally have become more sensitive to smoke as a non-smoker, I hardly think that every non-smoker gets that way. Case in point, I stopped smoking about 6 years ago, but I still can go outside with my smoking friends and not be bother by them puffing away. YMMV

lata, jeremy

Im a smoker. I dont like the idea of a total smoke ban on theme parks. Its the freakin outdoors for cryin out loud. I agree with no smoking on the queue lines, and on the water parks. Chlorine and cigarettes dont really taste good, makes me actually not crave for a cig. But on a wide open midway, cmon now. But if they designate smoking areas, thats fair enough for me. I know the dangers of smoking and hopefully I get to kick the habit soon. Ive cut down, so thats a start.

The Disney designated smoking areas are ok...to a point. The problem I have with them is many of them are right near the restrooms. This is bad for both smokers and non-smokers alike.

If I was a smoker I'm not sure I would want to be relegated to outside the bathroom doors. As a non-smoker, I don't appreciate having to go through the smoking area to get to the bathroom.

If the parks use some common sense about where to put the designated smoking areas then I don't have any problem with that at all.

I work in a municipality now. We have a rule about smoking in the parks. Noone can smoke within 100 feet of a ball field, playground, building, etc. This is healthier for everyone and sends the right message to our kids.

Nothing makes me laugh more than watching someone work out in the park for an hour only to run to their car and grag a cigarette. I mean...what is the point?

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The Disney designated smoking areas are ok...to a point. The problem I have with them is many of them are right near the restrooms. This is bad for both smokers and non-smokers alike.

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Exactly the point I was making with my Disney quip.

In many cases, things would probably be less obtrusive to non-smokers if they just had the smokers scattered along the midways.

Dollywood has designated smoking areas, which might have something to do w/that park being the cleanest park i've ever seen.
I'm a smoker and i had no problem following the rule. that park was beautiful.
I just thought of something. There is a bowling alley in a burb of Cleveland that has a no smoking policy on Saturday mornings and afternoons. they've had this for a few years now. you can't even smoke in the lounge during that time. *** Edited 2/28/2005 4:33:46 PM UTC by FLYINGSCOOTER***

^Thats nothing. In California, you can't smoke in bars, restraunts, bowling alleys, malls or any indoor public place.

If people can put up with this at Dollywood and both US Disney parks, then the Paramount Parks should have no problem. Its not going to affect attendance, and may even increase guest satisfaction. Its their property- they set the rules.

As Gonch says, designated smoking areas are the alternative, and will be used. I'm not a heavy smoker to begin with, so I can deal, although it's inconvenient, especially when those I'm coastering with don't want to take a time out for the old fart to have a quick puff.

This was especially evident at Holiday World last year. We were there from opening until close and I had 4 cigarette breaks. Only 4, but each time it was such an inconvenience to those with me to have to sit for 10 minutes and wait for me.

On the other hand, the areas provided by HW are wonderful, large open deck areas with nice views. I hope PKI's areas are not small, cramped areas.

BTW, speaking of government control, I wonder if anyone has heard the salt issue yet? The government now wants to cut our consumption of salt because it's bad for us.

I can say one thing...at my age, by the time all of these "bad for you" things are abolished, I'll likely have one foot in the grave anyway and won't have to deal with it.

Am I the only non-smoker who likes the smell/taste of cigarette smoke? Maybe it is just because The city-wide smoking ban in bars/restaraunts makes it a rarity for me to be around people smoking, but when someone smokes a cigarette around me, it really doesn't bother me.

cplady: Salt usage?!?!?.
Things are truly starting to sound like Demolition Man (movie). "Anything that is not good for is bad, therefore illegal..." S. Bullock.

Yes but the Clean Indoor Air Act is more for the people who don't smoke instead of against the people who do. Now non-smokers don't have to go inside a building and smell cigarette smoke. I think it's a great idea and most smokers I know are fine with it (except at bars).

I don't know about this "salt" thing but with smoking, it's not like the government is telling people they can't smoke. They just have to do it outside. Cutting salt sounds a little extreme. Where did you hear about that CPLady?