Park Pop Prices

its like ices i can go to wawa and get a small for 99cents, for a small it like 3.50 at gadv, and 20 bucks for a pizza wow these prices r to high thats why sometimes it best to leav the park for lunch drive to burger king then come back.

True that one of the other parks implementing the free soft drink policy is Lake Compounce.....comes in handy while you're watching Bass get soaked in a rainstorm....:)

I told him he shoulda thrown out the anchor when they overshot the brakes...;)

Even though I would love to see all parks do the free soda thing, I don't think anyone but a smaller park could get away with it.

During my first visit to HW I couldn't really understand why the soda was free and thought that people "probably take advantage of it" or there would be insanely longs lines. Of course I found out that was very far from the truth and that was one of the many things that made HW special. People were used to it.

Now if any one of the chains decided to do the same thing I DO think people would abuse it, if that makes any sense.

-Tina

*** Edited 1/26/2004 2:35:55 AM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***

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meangene said:
That's exactly the response i would expect from the Maven. Standard PR park line. <snip> But as an operator i would HATE it. And i KNOW (for a fact) that those that actually RUN the department don't care for the program one bit.

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Oh, good grief. First you post a false rumor about Holiday World and now you insult me. Mr. Meangene, you and I don't know each other, but I'm sure others here who have known me for years will assure you I do not "spin" or lie.

The simple truth is, we are very happy with and proud of our Free, Unlimited Soft Drink program. We're sticking with it.

If a survey were taken with the employees of any given department at any business, you'd find programs that are more popular than others. If a maintenance worker grumbles about the upkeep on a coaster, does that mean you should state that we are rethinking keeping the coasters? Of course not.

The truth is, our employees also enjoy the free soft drinks--it keeps them from spending their hard-earned money on soft drinks, too. In the food services deparment, they appreciate that the self-serve "Pepsi Oasis" buildings greatly decrease the number of drinks that they serve out of the food outlets. It keeps lines moving faster.

We were happy to talk to the folks at Lake Compounce a few years ago, as they looked into adding their own version of free pop/soda/soft drinks. (I have cousins in the Boston area who call it "tonic." I didn't know what the heck they were talking about the first time they asked, "What kind of taw-nic do you want with lunch?" :))

Paula

Hey there is no doubt in my mind that the owners/operators of Holiday World love it! Fact is we as people see that we don't have to pay for drinks. (and correct me if I'm wrong RavenMaven) Since we don't pay much, if any then suddenly we feel we are saving a large amount of money, thus causing us to spend more on other things in the park. Its a marketing tool and a dang brilliant one at that! I believe it actually helps Holiday world make money! Although this is speculation so correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, it's definately a win-win situation (ugh, I hate that phrase, but it does fit the situation).

Thanks, Paula

Paula....it's WAY better than "lose-lose"...;)

For once (and quite possibly the first time ever), I have to chime in on a thread just to laugh!

It just kills me how some folks have stories in their heads that nothing will shake loose...not even a park official telling them they're wrong. Nothing like armchair quarterbacks in roundtable meetings with their empty snack food bags. All the world's secrets are theirs!

-CO

One thing you have to look at when it comes to at least movie theaters(and I assume parks to some degree) is this: I worked at a Privately owned movie theater in Moorefield, WV for over a year. Almost 2, actually. Ticket prices were $6 per person. That is standard in most of WV, though I know movies are much more elsewhere. But the thing is, and I know this for a fact as the entire Theater was owned and operated by the same people, and they were very open about business practices with the employees, They made money, not on movies, but on Soda, Popcorn, and Candy. Soda isn't expensive, really. Popcorn, cheap! When we ran out of candy before a truck delivery of new, we went to the Wal-Mart(my then full time job) that was infront of the Theater and bought the candy to sell, and they still made at least $1.50 profit.

The truth is, the Theater was Expensive(and very well maintanied and run). You only get about 10% of the ticket price per person. With that, you'll never pay any thing, what with maintenance, an expensive theater/equipment, paying employees(who got free movies and soda and popcorn when they were there). Heck, matinee prices were $4 and kids and seniors were $4 at any time.

If parks or Theaters want to add new attractions, they get money from addmission. If they want to make a profit, they offer high priced sodas/food, but they need new attractions to get people to come in, so that is something they have to charge, and when the people are there, they pay for food and drink, which is profit for the establishment. Since parks like Holiday World don't go out and get a new coaster or Major attraction each year, they can get by with this. People are still gonna visit cause (I'm told...;)) the park is great, has great coasters, has great people, and has great service. *** Edited 1/26/2004 8:26:16 PM UTC by TeknoScorpion***

You are completly correct TeknoScorpion, ask any vendor (resturant, movie theatre, amusement park, etc.) and they will tell you they make the most profit on soda. Soda is dirt cheap, that is why allmost every resturant has adopted a free refill policy (it would take at least 10-20 Im told for them to not make money on you).

That makes Holiday World's free soda policy all the more amazing. I really really need to visit that park soon (I just wish it was nearer to other points of interest).

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Wildfire01 said:
Hey there is no doubt in my mind that the owners/operators of Holiday World love it! Fact is we as people see that we don't have to pay for drinks. (and correct me if I'm wrong RavenMaven) Since we don't pay much, if any then suddenly we feel we are saving a large amount of money, thus causing us to spend more on other things in the park. Its a marketing tool and a dang brilliant one at that! I believe it actually helps Holiday world make money! Although this is speculation so correct me if I'm wrong.

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Brilliant would be an understatement. ;-)

Paula, will be be seeing a "Tonic Oasis" or two now? ;-)

-Tina

First off i never said that you are lying. Spinning is not lying. It's what you're suposed to do in PR/Marketing, as in put your product in the best light possible. All spinning semantics aside, why would you ever come out on a public board and say, "ya the free beverage thing isn't all that we thought it might be." You are paid to convey the sentiment of the company, and that's all i expected, and what i got. So no offense intended. And i have no other reason than to believe that you believe exactly what you said.

Obviously i know you have considerable credibility on me solely based on your position. And i wouldn't have bothered to even make a statement unless i was certain.

I am stating two things at this point.

(1) No FS manager would be happy with this policy.

The annalogy about the grumbling maintenance worker (and don't they ALWAYS grumble?) isn't applicable here simply because you're talking saftey which cannot be ignored. A grumbling FS manager is talking fiscal responsibility and Holiday World is a business after all. Again all rebuttles aside, the whole maintenance annalogy just confims that not everyone is behind this policy.

(2) There is NO financial sense in offering free soft drinks unless you don't pay for the product, equipment, and labor (even then it would still be better to pay for the product, equipment and labor and make the profit).

Not only do you lose the revenue from one of the most profitable items on your menu, you also increase the demand for it; thus the cost of more product, plus the added labor to deal with that increase demand. Having to add an "oasis" may not have cost money for equipment, but i imagine someone has to keep it stocked and cleaned.

And even having to add the oasis is bad simply because that just shows you needed to get the non-paying customers out of the way of those who want to help support the park (ie purchase something), and not deter the paying customers with long lines of people looking to get the next cup of Mountain Dew they will promptly forget about and leave more than half full on the table over there creating the need for more park service staff (or whatever you call them). (phew, perhaps that was a bit run-on.)

So look at it this way. If you had a five gallon BIB of Pepsi that produces 320 16 oz beverages (with no ice), that can be sold for at least $1.75 a piece totaling 560 dollars gross revenue. Food cost on 320 16 oz beverages is 40 bucks for the box and about $9.60 for the paper and whatever you pay for ice (which should essentially be zero unless you are as moronic as SFWOA and pay for ice). So taking my estimations and rounding it, you could have at least $500 profit per BIB. Profit. Take that and multiply it by the thousands of BIBs you can and do move seasonally and that is a lot of cash the owner is willing to part with. There is no way to recover that kind of money through "expanded sales" in other areas. It's just to much. Especially considering you have taken one of your best money makers and turned it into a cash drain. So not only do you have to overcome the lost profit, you also have to overcome the cost of offering the free beverage.

The more i look at it the less i like it as a operations manager.

The only explination (that i can come up with) is that the Koch family is doing it because they want to; because they value their guest. Which is why that park is generally ranked among the best among those who pay attention to such matters. (this last paragraph is just my own assumption/speculation).

The ironic thing in all this is that for however long this policy has been in effect i have defended it from any and all FS operators/owners (in and out of the industry). Not one have i talked to could see any benefit that would outweigh the cost. And hearing what you just talked about with having to add oasis stations and thinking about the other factors, i am staring to agree with the nay-sayers from a mangerial stand point. Again as a consumer i have no gripe.

meangene,

You need to understand something very important here. Paula doesn't "spin" or tell *anything* but the absolute truth. She's definitely a "straight shooter," to borrow a silly euphemism. Just because the free beverage service works for Holiday World doesn't mean that it would work everywhere, but get this through your head - IT. WORKS. FOR. THEM.

Perfect example of just one of the benefits for the park. On my first visit the year they started the free beverage service I noticed mid-day that I still had most of the cash in my wallet that I started with. When did I notice this? In one of their souvenir shops. What happened? I spent *more* money on park stuff than I normally would - because I had it. Gee, what a very simple yet *brilliant* concept.

Jeff *** Edited 1/28/2004 4:56:02 PM UTC by jkingstl***

Jeff....how can you say "IT.WORKS.FOR.THEM." Obviously others know better....how would Paula know anyway, it's not like she holds an important position there....ROFL.

20% increase in attendance? I think it's fairly safe to say it's not only *working* in Santa Claus, but that the "elves" are very much happy with the results.

Wanna know how "up-front" HW is....well, Paula's still posting even after the tragedy at SRM. That speaks VOLUMES.....

Whatever reservations they MAY have had about the Pepsi Oasis concept, they're gone now...

edit: should mention that there probably is validity to the argument that the free soft drink policy would be abused at larger parks....it's not at HW.
bill, has PLENTY of HW souvies...and wants MORE...:) *** Edited 1/28/2004 3:18:14 PM UTC by rollergator***

Has anyone ever considered the fact that perhaps HW is not acting out of a desire to increase business and profits, but solely out of a desire to please guests?

If you can do BOTH, and do that very well, even better...:)

And I don't think any other park could do it better.

:-D

-Tina

Den, i think that was a point at the end of my last posting.

Rollergator, it would be rediculous for anyone to claim a 20% attendance increase soley based on free pop. Maybe some, but clearly not all.

Jeff, let's say you're right. Everyone is so happy they saved money on drinks they go out and but a trinket or more food or play more games. And spend that money they saved on pop. It still wouldn't benifit the parks bottom line because the profit margin on soft drinks are so much higher than anything else it wouldn't balance out. And clearly some people will take that savings home. Unless people go out and spend that saved dollar on cotton candy, popcorn or snow cones you're nowhere near making money on the issue.

Telling the absolute truth is possible while leaving out details or information the park doesn't want us (the GP) to know. It's at the core of public relations.

And let me make this clear. I have no problem with what Ms. Werne has said. She is certainly one of the best PR people in parks from everything i have seen/heard. And no offence was meant by anything i have said and do appologize if it did. Oh and i formerly take back the comment that HW is "rethinking" the policy.

I'm just saying that if this was my park (which obviously it isn't) i wouldn't let one of my biggest moneymakers become a liability. And i'm not the only one in the industry or HW who feels that way. But if ownership is all for it, then more power to them. *** Edited 1/29/2004 3:49:09 AM UTC by meangene***

I hear you meangene. I am questioning Paula from HW on the $2 increase. I was under the assumption that when HW rasied their gate price $3, $2 went for the soda, and $1 went for the new coaster.

Of course, Will Koch said this in an IAAPA meeting, but what do I know. Most of us who hold a 'cost of goods budget' need something returned to cover expenses.

So Paula, what did your foodservice manager say when Will told him no more charging for soft drinks? Flush the 'cost of goods budget' down the toilet? What monies are diverted to cover the costs? That is my question.

If HW does not track 'cost of goods', then can I get a resume out to you? If I only had to worry about labor and revenue, my life got 33% easier in the summer. *** Edited 2/1/2004 5:43:40 AM UTC by Agent Johnson***

Johnson, Holiday World doesn't flush anything down the toilet...remember, they switched to waterless toilets a few years ago. :)

The bottom line is this: I don't know how Holiday World organizes their books, or their departments, and I really don't care because quite frankly it is none of my business. But what is obvious is that the structure of the organization is such that instead of a bunch of autonomous departments fighting over their chunk of the budget, somehow their structure allows the administration to look at the park as an integrated system. Cost of goods is still an issue, but who says it has to be a sales cost and not an operating cost? The spreadsheet has lots of lines on it.....

--Dave Althoff, Jr.