Only in America Amusement Complex

Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:34 PM
Tonight our local ABC news station has posted information about a group of people that wish to build a park 5x the size of Kennywood near Pittsburgh International Airport. Apparently two companies have already agreed to help support the project, which is supposed to include a snowdome for year-round sledding, amusement rides, water rides, a water park, dancing halls, senior areas, and more.

News Report

Park Site

At first I thought this was some sort of joke, but apparently these people are dead serious. Another Scratch Park, or a promising new attraction? O_o

*** Edited 12/12/2003 1:39:11 AM UTC by PhantomTails***

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Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:36 PM
Sounds cool. I hope they build one of those around my area.
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Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:45 PM
Hmmm, interesting. I hope if this realy does happen, that Pittsburgh can actually support more than one park.
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Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:00 PM
It sounds like an excellent idea, I'd like to see what roller coasters they will have. Good thing it isn't another Scratch Park and actually has a real, decent website.
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Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:04 PM
I like their survey page.

"Would you rather have a 10 minute roller coaster ride or a 3 minute ride?"

Lol, start the rumors. ;)

"Would you rather visit a park if it had a roller coaster with a guaranteed 10 minute wait or less? Or would this not matter to you?"

OMG, they are moving Gemini to this park!

If we had two unannounced free admission days per season, would you visit the park more often just in case that day was the free admission day?

What kind of a buisiness is this, lol?

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Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:32 PM
Yeah , the survey page is hilarious.

I'm not putting my money on this one. It's just too much stuff for them to hope to open it all at once.

Even if it did open , the amusement park would probably be only a small part of the complex.

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More money-grubbing businessmen.....

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Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:41 PM
Was I the only one expecting to see Chris Godsey's name on the contact page?

And what idiots didn't pick the lowest price on "help us pick our price" question?

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Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:06 PM
The name alone makes me go a little bit cross-eyed.

Only in America can screwed up businesses run by imbeciles survive?

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Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:03 PM
Don King lawsuit in 5... 4... 3...

Love the first survey question. In other words, "What's your favorite ride that won't run us into multi-million dollar debt right off the bat?"

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Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:56 PM
On question #2 of the survey, does "certain kinds of people" mean ACErs? :)

-Nate

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Friday, December 12, 2003 12:19 AM
There's some really "unique" ideas being tossed around here:


Each zip code around the Pittsburgh area will have one day each season to purchase a "Play all Day" ticket for only $15.00?For example: People living in the 15108 zip code can enter the park on July 12, 2006 for only $15.00? with proper identification.
Hehe. I live in the 15108 Zip Code - should I start saving my $15 now or is this just for demostrational purposes?
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Friday, December 12, 2003 3:35 AM
I think you have a better chance of Whalom Park building a hyper coaster.

More power to these people, but in Pittsburgh's past proposals, much smaller scale projets never got off the ground. There have been proposals for Station Square and several other waterparks along the various river locations.

First off, Allegheny Co. owns the airtport property, which is over 10,000 acres. Any access in that region is not serviced by any major roads that is between the downtown and the airport. Pittsburghers are lazy at best. If they have to hump it much further, they will just say 'lets head to Six Flags or Cedar Point'.

If regional banks are turning their backs on lending USAirways, the Penguins and the Pirates more money, they damn well will not fund this. Kennywood and Cedar Point have their accounts in Mellon/Citizens Bank. That bank wants cash and knows a good track record when they see it. PNC was the culprit that fired the bankruptcy cannon at Conneaut Lake Park in 1994, when they only owed $500,000 more than their assets.

Baker Engineering is hq'd next to the airport. They did 70% of IOA's building, and never got paid in full. These guys will need an out of state engineering firm to do all the work.

Labor costs will be outlandish, as full timers will want to unionized. Plus, in the wide world of tourism, this new park is going up against to following markets:

Nation's largest group picnic business park (Kennywood)
Six Flags #5 park (Worlds of Adventure)
Cedar Fair's #1 park (Cedar Point)
2 of the 3 oldest parks in the US (Idlewild and CP)
5 parks that can cater groups of 10,000 at once (Kennywood, Conneaut, Idlewild, Cedar Point,Worlds of Adventure)
Largest ski lodge in the East Coast (Seven Springs)
4 wave pools (Sandcastle, 3 in Allegheny Co. Parks)

Any bank will want to know how they will address any of these issues before dime one is handed out. And judging by their information links, which were done by someone's 12 yr. old kid, they have a mountain to climb.

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Friday, December 12, 2003 9:10 AM
I love the survey, pick a price for admission: are these people on crack, how can you price something that has no model of or list of what is or will exactly be there. With 105 mill what kind of park can they build. I'm sticking to CP, KW, and CLP.
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Friday, December 12, 2003 10:03 AM
Agent Johnson - nice analysis, and you're exactly right. I also live in the 15108 zip code, in fact I'd be about a 15 minute walk from this park's proposed site, and that's all it is, proposed. It will never go further than this. That site has been up for all sorts of uses in the 7 years I've lived in the immediate area. The most recent one that got shot down was an indoor NASCAR track. That one was shot down not only because the airport authority was sketchy about it, but because of noise problems, parking problems and ... uh, sorry about the insult to some here, but importing of "those people".

Pittsburgh just really cannot support an entire new amusement park. Things like this need a good base of people and Allegheny County is one of, if not still the oldest County in America! Young people leave here in droves, and sometimes, I think with good reason. This place has a real hard time hanging on to entertainment for non-family and younger crowds, Kennywood being one of the few nods in that direction. Even the strip and south side with their numerous bars, those bars are usually there, but the names and owners change every year or two because they can't keep people's interest long enough, and there's not enough people to support as many bars as exist. I love this city with all my heart, and in my many travels have yet to find another that I like more, but this place simply cannot support another amusement park - and if there's one place that it *can't* go, its that site (which I believe will never be used for anything more than airport expansion if that is ever even needed). The only other site that I would even think likely would be the site near Cranberry where they were proposing a horse-racing track, but that has recently become the new Turnpike Exit 3, so that's kind of out too!

And the bit AJ mentioned about Baker, that's totally true too. That's my brand spankin new company (I start work Jan 19) and my Dad's been part of them for a long time. He still gets a grimace on his face when I mention Universal, and specifically CityWalk (they were actually burned on CityWalk, not IoA).

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Friday, December 12, 2003 10:09 AM
I think having a North Park Clubhouse at RTC is a great thing. Vegas burgers!
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Friday, December 12, 2003 10:14 AM
Heh, yea, I visited that place in my "over-21" state for the first time a couple of weeks ago - it was fun, but give me Dave and Busters anytime; I'll return though cause its much less of a dent in my pocket.
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Friday, December 12, 2003 10:15 AM
i cant imagine two parks being supported by pittsburgh, but i will visit if it does happen. seems really sketchy though, things like "A Franklin Park man and five friends want to build an indoor/outdoor amusement park near Pittsburgh International Airport" make me think this is amature hour.
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Friday, December 12, 2003 10:18 AM
Excellent, detailed analysis by AJ (do we expect any less? ;) )

It's nice to have dreams, but reality will always ground sky-high plans like this. I'd be the first one there if it DID happen, but please.

Now, Pittsburgh DOES have some interesting developments going on. The crowds that show up at the Waterfront, Station Square, and Robinson (The Pointe, the Mall) are downright frightening at times. But, with our population base, you have to realize that a lot of the crowds aren't NEW business, but diverted business -- someone else is getting hurt. In the case of the Waterfront, I believe it's mostly West Mifflin, Monroeville, and Shadyside, with some crowds coming in from as far away as Cranberry and Washington counties. In other words, no one area gets pounded, but there's still no net growth.

A new park would face problems with serious competition in much the same way. As AJ pointed out, between Kennywood, Six Flags, and Cedar Point, you've already got significant direct competition, let alone the other amusement dollar destinations.
*** Edited 12/12/2003 3:20:35 PM UTC by GregLeg***

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Friday, December 12, 2003 10:25 AM
Even beyond just theme park competition - they're trying to be one of those "we have everything" complexes, two of which already exist! Fun Fore All in Cranberry is expensive, but has two mini-golfs, a large arcade (with DDR), batting cages, go-karts and just added kiddie rides including a kiddie coaster. Plus, you have Island Sports Complex which was just bought by Robert Morris Univ. only 10 minutes from this site which is a dual-ice, dual-roller rink with indoor driving range, mini-golf and batting cages; and now with RMU dollars supporting it could expand further.

So they'd already be in 3rd spot for a limited supply of customers in that arena, plus 4th or 5th for amusement parks (count in Hersheypark), and they're located in the one area of Pittsburgh that's well-recognized for being the hardest to get to. Maybe if they brought this back into play once we get Maglev, or the light rail, or expansion of the parkway or something, but I think that the transportation issue is another major shot to the junk for this idea.

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Friday, December 12, 2003 11:16 AM
If you want my humble opinion, I think Channel 4 in Pittsburd was desperate for a story. Come on! This site was put up by a teenager! *** Edited 12/12/2003 9:58:54 PM UTC by janfrederick***
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