One dead, nine injured in roller coaster derailment at Grona Lund

Earlier Schwarzkopf wheel assembly

https://rcdb.com/130.htm#p=5704

The newer design that has detailed three times with fatalities

https://rcdb.com/1062.htm#p=2343

Jetline was produced by Zierer but isn’t it a Schwarzkopf design?

Sad story. Obviously Schwarzkopf trains seem to have issues after time. Mindbender at WEM, the one in Mexico that they are rebuilding at IB, and now this one all had wheel assembly failure. I wonder if this accident will make parks that own Schwarzkopf coasters put their coasters or trains out of service. Reportedly the Mindbenbder at WEM at many tiny cracks all over the tracks. I guess they probably think now that they made the good decision of retiring it for good. Indiana Beach must be wondering what to do now. I think the best option is to have new trains built by an other manufacturer.

I don't think you can really throw in La Quimera in that mix. That park ran that ride in ways it wasn't designed for. It ran it without any of the trims, causing more stress on the wheel assemblies that were designed for, and on top of that, it seemed to have unapproved 3rd party wheel assemblies, which is one that broke. It ran for years very safely with the proper maintenance. At the time, I do believe Mexico wasn't following and wasn't required for any of the operators to follow the ASTM standards.

I'm struggling to understand how a ride that ran without incident for 25 years could have a design flaw. Mindbender I get, that accident happened less than 7 months after opening.

Just poor maintenance; el toro tan safely for 13 years but then had their first accident. So I’m sure that’s the reason

Most seasonal parks do non-destructive testing that would likely identify some parts that are likely to fail, but even that isn't foolproof. I'm sure there will be an investigation. We'll have to try and look out for the results.

I’m sure it will be poor wheel assembly and maintenance, I wouldn’t be surprised if they blame a ride op since that happens often now.

Vater:

I'm struggling to understand how a ride that ran without incident for 25 years could have a design flaw.

You're not wrong in that any ride could develop a fatal flaw if not properly maintained or inspected over 25 years. However, when was the last time you heard of an Arrow losing an entire wheel assembly? There are twice as many operating Arrows as there are Schwarzkopf coasters now, yet there have been three fatal accidents caused by catastrophic assembly failures for the latter and 0 (as far as I can recall, correct me if I'm wrong) for the former.

Jackson_thosie:

el toro tan safely for 13 years but then had their first accident.

Given the fact that it has two similar incidents in two years (and reports say it's still running like garbage) combined with the reported Six Flags budget cuts I wouldn't say the safety on El Toro went from zero to incident in one freak moment.

Arrow coasters are pretty much accident free and the trains' wheel assemblies sure take a beating from the track design flaws. So I guess they are safer, sturdier. Schwarzkopf trains sustain intense forces due to an intense well designed layout but I guess they have to be built sturdier or reinforced.

A million plus rides a year, on a 35 year old train, puts a lot of stress on steel, and that wheel design looks to have alot of failure points.

And considering all the ones in the US have new trains...

Almost all of the old Arrows running have trains from newer defunct arrows, or parts from, or new assemblies.

Have any of the Jumbo Jets ever derailed? The one from CP still going strong what 50+ years later

Sharpel007:

Almost all of the old Arrows running have trains from newer defunct arrows, or parts from, or new assemblies.

I would like to see some supporting evidence here. Most the Arrows I've ridden still are running their original trains. Part swaps and replacements are common across all rides by all manufacturers but unless you work directly for a park or supplier you'll have no way to know how many this actually applies to. And I'm sure it happens with Schwarzkopf trains too.

(Edited to remove "if not all" -- Loch Ness is running new trains as of 2018)

I know Carolina Cyclone is running the old Kings Island Vortex trains. Corkscrew at CP is running two trains that come not only from pieces and parts of what was once a three train set, but also the two Double Loop trains from Geauga Lake. But none of those are new by any means.

Interesting Fact: The purple train from the Double Loop is the old red train from the Geauga Lake Corkscrew. Now the 2 Ohio Corkscrew’s are sharing parts!

Indiana Beach purchased WEM Mindebender trains for parts not long ago after the retirement of Mindebender.

PhantomTails:

when was the last time you heard of an Arrow losing an entire wheel assembly?

The Bat lost a wheel once.* Was that a design flaw?

If you can prove to me that the Schwarzkopf assemblies failed due to their design, then the unblemished track record (pun) of Arrow's wheel assemblies might be relevant. These coasters have been in operation since the 80s. An investigation could possibly point to a flaw in design, but until they do, I find it difficult to believe that no one questioned the design prior to the 2019 incident...especially after Mindbender's design was found partially at fault and corrected.

*And the Joker got away.

I don’t think that a wheel falling off resulting in no injuries is a fair comparison to an entire wheel assembly falling off and killing riders.

I also think that's kind of the point. Similar failures have happened on coasters without trains manufactured by Schwarzkopf and all parts of the train remain on the track. Remember the accident on Demon at Great America back in the 90s? Despite a pretty serious failure on that one, the ride did not derail and passengers were able to be safely removed from the ride.

So is the "design flaw" a lack of redundant failsafes? Is that what we're debating? I guess I'm hung up on the actual design of the wheel assembly, which has held the trains to the track on a very large amount of coasters for several decades. To me, identifying a "design flaw" in something after a quarter century that both age and stress can wreak havoc on (that requires regular maintenance) is...illogical?

The Bat wheel incident was a throw away comment not really intended to take seriously. I wasn't comparing that to these accidents (although if that incident did cause a fatality, even without completely derailing the car, would it be an ok comparison then?). That's rhetorical. Whatever.

A better example would be the OG Bat. A coaster that opened in 1981, found to be a complete failure in the design of the track and closed within two years, scrapped by '85. That makes sense to me. A couple wheel assembly failures 25+ years into operation doesn't. Unless you're referring to, perhaps, a non-existent backup safety measure to prevent a failed assembly from completely derailing the train.

A big difference between Schwarzkopf (or Zierer) and most Arrow/Vekoma rides is that Arrow designed their track and trains with the wheel assemblies inside the rails*, whereas Schwarzkopf's track is designed so the assemblies sit outside the rails. That might make Arrow rides less likely to derail in the event of a wheel failure, and/or might make a derailment less catastrophic if it were to occur (by keeping the car more or less on the track).

*Not suspended rides, however.