Old Arrow's - New Trains

I think that he meant that the type of lapbar that Phantom's Revenge uses on it's trains wouldn't work on looping coasters. It'd be like putting a few loops and corkscrews on Magnum XL 200 with the current trains and restraints. It wouldn't be very safe, but if the trains had lapbars similar to those on the Flight of Fear coasters, then it would work.

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Intelligence is a God given gift: Know how to use it.

To be honest, the premier lapbars are not even that great, but compared to what the coaster use to be like with the old restrainets, it makes the ride so much more better, and gives a better ride. The reason their lapbars are not that great is becuase the feel so tight, and snug, and when you sit in the train, one has to sqweeze themselves in this little car, also on the first seats of every car on the train. There is like a little lump or mound in the car under the riders foot tord the outside of the car, and it can be uncomfortable, so much I have seen riders get out, and move their seats etc, including myself,I love the idea, but I wish they would have not had the lump in the front row of each car, but their is a simple solution for that discomfort, and it is not to sit in those seats.

If you didn't just feel the sarcasm screaming form my post you must be nuts.

Ride a Schwartkopf looper and tell me those restraints are anywhere near what is on FOF. They are in fact an awful lot like those on your typical Arrow super mine train IE Gemini, Magnum, etc etc.

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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!

*** This post was edited by MagnumForce on 1/19/2003. ***

Actually, the Schwarzkopf lap bars have at least one thing in common with the Premier lap bars, in that Schwarzkopf also used an ankle bar. It isn't as low, and it isn't padded, but it serves the same two purposes...to strengthen the bar assembly, and to keep your legs wrapped around the end of the seat.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

AirTimeMan,

I've ridden FOF over 100 times. The reason I say it wouldn't work is not because you're going upside down, I'm saying it because you couldn't simply replace OSTR's with a lapbar. The train would have to be completely remodified, and you might aswell get new ones instead. This is why I used Phantom's Revenge as an example, they did the same thing. Although, they didn't have to worry about it fitting perfectly in because it doesn't have any inversions.

The trains for the Premier conversions were not new trains. The trains were sent out and modified. You can even see where the fiberglass body was notched out to clear the lap bar in the raised position.

The Premier conversions don't keep your head from moving back and forth, they just remove the OTSR's that it used to hit. When I rode Dr. Freeze at SFStL the guy in front of me was rather tall and I could see his head going back and forth like crazy. I'm sure my head was doing the same thing.

I don't know what specific engineering issues would be involved in converting Arrow trains, but I would think that it could be done. If it couldn't be done, it would still be worth the cost of new trains if the increase in ridership would be anything like it has been on the Premier.

Take the trains from Cedar Creek Mine Ride and place them on the track of Magnum XL-200. Then conduct the experiment. :-)

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Keeping Youngstown Living Exciting

I remember back when Flight of Fear ( then Outer Limits: Flight of Fear ) at Paramount's Kings Island had over the shoulder restraints. There was not one time that I saw the pre-ride show. Every time I went on FOF I would walk right into the station, almost no wait at all. Then, Flight of Fear got the new lap bars. We enthusiasts had known about these new restraints for quite a while, but I assumed that the General Public was still in the dark. I walked into the line for FOF, and was amazed to see that the entire line inside the building was completely full. Obviously, the word had gotten around, and Flight of Fear was almost back to it's original popularity.

New restraints probably wouldn't have the same effect on all coasters, but I'd be willing to bet that ridership would go up a considerable amount on a rides such as Viper at Six Flags Magic Mountain, Vortex at Paramount's Kings Island, or any other Arrow/Vekoma coaster.

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Intelligence is a God given gift: Know how to use it.

Dave I was gonna post that but thought people already realized that. I think it is really the only difference between a run of the mill lapbar and a Schwartzkopf lapbar.

My point was they are almost the same.

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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!

I was going to mention this in my earlier post, but forgot to.

It is pretty well a given that you could refit/replace the trains to feature lapbars on Arrow coasters. The idea of simply unscrewing the OTSR and screwing on lapbars isn't what most people are talking about - it is about reworking the basics of an existing train, or replacing the trains straight out.

My concern, in this instance, is with regards to clearance issues. The tubular restraints that Arrow used to use allowed pretty free movement of the arms, but Arrow often used (presumably in the later years) their flat restraints that restrict arm movement. Most coasters would have no problem, but there could be some where the free movement of the entire upper body could pose a risk to riders of some dimensions.

I can think of two coasters, both Arrow loopers, but in Australia (both 10 mins from each other), where clearance issues such as this are present. Considering we've got only two Arrow coasters here, I'd guess such potential issues are present on many Arrow coasters. You could always modify whatever it is that is causing the problem, supports I'm sure would be relatively easy, but if it's track we're talking about, that'd be a bit tricky. These creative engineers that RideMan speaks of, I'm sure will find a way around it, I don't really want to get too cliche, but where there's a will there's a way. :)

I'd like to see something like this done, especially if they redesigned the trains from scratch to something more modern, that is very appealing, even when put next to some of those European trains.

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