Oh Noes! SFMM wants beer!

Brian Noble said:
To put it another way: how many moonshiners do you know? My guess: not many. But, the rum runners and 'shiners weren't the guys who formed Seagrams and InBev. That was "bidnessmen."

I almost added the same thing to my post. I was gonna say:

How many people sell alcohol out of their basements off the radar anymore?

They don't do it because the legal alternative is most often cheaper and higher quality and consistency. There's little incentive for the buyer.

Marijuana would be the same.

And as long as a pack of cigaweed is cheaper than a dime or nickle bag...

Boy, and y'all thought Walmart was busy on Friday Nights now!

All of the Walmart stuff will be sourced from China. It will be laced with lead and red dye #40. May not be the best option. Think Target instead.

Re: moonshiners. But, presumably for themselves and friends and family and maybe the folks around the way, not as a commercial enterprise with major distribution networks in the way that the illicit drug industry has.

Brian Noble said:
My vague sense from reading a few articles is that prices through dispensaries are higher than they would be from "your guy", but still many people have gone the dispensary route---the higher price is repaid by eliminating the risk of legal entanglements.

Lord Gonchar said:
...the legal alternative is most often cheaper and higher quality and consistency. There's little incentive for the buyer.

Exactly - many people prefer dispensaries not only because it's legal, but because the quality is often higher, and equally or more important, you have a selection - not only of type/strain, but also whether it's smokable, edible, etc.

Brian Noble said:
Re: moonshiners. But, presumably for themselves and friends and family and maybe the folks around the way, not as a commercial enterprise with major distribution networks in the way that the illicit drug industry has.

Oh, of course. But you asked how many moonshiners I knew ;). In WV, it's sold at liquor stores anyways, but I know a lot of people that make it.

Still, though, we're on the same page. Legalizing it would make it far less profitable to be a local dealer.

^^ Because Target sells nothing made in China?

I know a few people who make their own "homebrew." Heck, I'm related to some. Of course, it doesn't become illegal unless money changes hands, and the state doesn't get their cut. I knew of a few people years ago who could be called moonshiners with the secret still in the woods and all. They ultimately got busted by the "revenuers." The reason why they still exist is not because they're making quality apertifs, but because they make a higher proof, product than you'll find in your local wine and spirits store.

Of course Target sells stuff made in China. Its just not laced with lead and red dye #40. ;)

I know a lot of folks who won't shop at Walmart because they buy stuff from China. Yet they do shop at stores (including Target) who buy from China too. I think its pretty funny.

PA also sells 'shine---or at least they did when I was at Carnegie.

I know a few people who make their own "homebrew." Heck, I'm related to some. Of course, it doesn't become illegal unless money changes hands, and the state doesn't get their cut.

You can brew (or make wine), but only via natural fermentation. You can't distill to concentrate.

On the issue of data, here's a little:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/10/12/us/AP-US-Drug-War-Legalization.html

$18-$35B in drug profits to the Mexican cartels.
Less than $2B of that is from pot.
Only about 3% of MX pot sales are in CA---because CA grows its own rather than importing.

So, at least for the Mexican cartels, we're only talking about tens of millions of dollars. Diversification is, apparently, key. If the rest of the US followed CA's lead, though, it gets much bigger.

Can you imagine the Mexican drug lords paying consultants on the Hill to lobby against marijuana? (The "medical" dispensaries already are...)

As are the alcohol companies.

Living near and working in POT City USA - A&E “Intervention In-Depth: Pot City USA” http://potcityusa.com

I can say that the growers are very worried about it be legalized. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36025681/

"Local residents are so worried that pot farmers came together with officials in Humboldt County for a standing-room-only meeting Tuesday night where civic leaders, activists and growers brainstormed ideas for dealing with the threat. Among the ideas: turning the vast pot gardens of Humboldt County into a destination for marijuana aficionados, with tours and tastings — a sort of Napa Valley of pot."

I'm not particularly fond of what legalization in CA would do to the price of almonds...I really love almonds. CA wine prices would go up too.

Well, until the people in NC and KY and WV and TN came to their senses and realized how much money they were losing to the West Coasters and legalized growing themselves. I'd give it an over/under of about ten years...

Doesn't Prop 19 allow for 25 sq. ft. of home garden growing? I don't think anyone thinks that you will prevent people from selling it to each other under the presnt model. As has been said above, there will always be people who will home brew, and likewise, there will always be growers who are proud of their particular strains of pot.

So I think that there's a certain amount that will always fly under the tax radar, just as a certain amount of alcohol flies under the radar. Despite the presence of beer industry giants, micro-breweries still thrive. I would think that many of those brewies started as very small operations, effecctively under the tax radar, but at some point, the owner decided to go above-board, because the potential to expand the market outweighed the added tax consequences. I see pot as the same way: you would have your pharma giants, micro-harvesters, and old-school home growers. Present-day dealers would have to find a way to compete, as their built-in advantage would be gone.

Plus, have you ever bought pot? That weird relationship with the dealer in which you have to pretend that somehow you are more than a customer, and in which you get roped into hanging out, smoking and listening to music when you'd rather be on your way is something I won't miss if/when legal weed rolls around.