Now that CF owns Great America in Cali, bring back the railroad.

Friday, January 25, 2008 5:30 AM
Yeah, I said it.

Bring back what should have never been takin out. Paramount removing an icon of the park along with being a nice relaxing cruise around the park, made a dumb, boneheaded, and ridiculous decision to remove it.

Never been to the park, but it was identical to the one THAT STILL OPERATES at SFGAm.


My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.

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Friday, January 25, 2008 8:04 AM
Can't

They would have to blow up the mouse, and the new water park. Also, the berm by the front gate is gone. They have put rides where the train used to go.

Park trains take a huge amount of real estate. I don't think you will see any go back in.

Better to focus on trying to avoid losing any more.

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Friday, January 25, 2008 8:58 AM
john peck's avatar I can't remember if it was there when I went in 2002. They had the Mouse then, as well as stealth, so Im guessing "no"
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Friday, January 25, 2008 9:17 AM
Believe me, Cedar Fair will make this park better than paramount did. I would expect the railroad to come back along with the fun that Cedar Fair parks provide.
Top 5, in no particular order: 1. MF 2. Maverick, 3. Kraken 3. El Toro, 4. TTD 5. Superman Krypton Coaster Top overrated coasters: 1. Incredible Hulk (Boooooring!) 2. Nitro 3. Expedition G-force 4. Goliath(SFMM) 5. Any Dive Coaster
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Friday, January 25, 2008 9:33 AM

manofthechurch said:Believe me, Cedar Fair will make this park better than paramount did. I would expect the railroad to come back along with the fun that Cedar Fair parks provide.

Well Im afraid your going to be gravely dissapointed on a railroad returning. The cost involved are far too prohibitive for building new ones, Lets say its a mile long, Two engines and the vehicles to carry 300 passengers. Estimated cost of al that new. 55 million dollars which excludes any bridges or tunnels.

KI restored theirs about ten years ago and thata about all your going to see done. Merrick Light Railway at Little America makes smaller versions 1/16th gauge and they are near a million each. Cars about 50 grand each but they only haul about 8-10 people per car.

NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!
Chuck, who says a CHance Morgan railroad is extremely expensive *** Edited 1/25/2008 2:35:18 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

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Friday, January 25, 2008 9:50 AM
So did they put a train into MA?

As Chuck says, too expensive, never going to happen. Also, I wouldn't expect CF to put a huge amount of money into the second and third tier parks. Their debt load is to high, they need to get a lot of bang for their cap ex buck.

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Friday, January 25, 2008 10:18 AM

Believe me, Cedar Fair will make this park better than paramount did.


Yeah, just look at how much they improved GL :(

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Friday, January 25, 2008 10:59 AM
If a train did return, I doubt it would be of the scale and grander of thr original train. CF does have surplus locomotives between CP and Knotts. As well as a few 3 foot guage locomotives are available at this time. Open excursion cars are also readaly available. Besides that a number of Chance trains are for sale in smaller guages.

William W. Gray, CuratorWhitewater Valley RailroadConnersville, Indiana

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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:02 AM

Charles Nungester said:
Two engines and the vehicles to carry 300 assengers. Estimated cost of al that new. 55 million dollars which excludes any bridges or tunnels.

Um...whose estimate? Cedar Fair did drop a railroad into Michigan's Adventure, you know, and I highly doubt they spent much on it.

-Nate

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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:12 AM
Not a Narrow guage RR scale, Not even close.

Chuck

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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:15 AM
janfrederick's avatar YES! I agree WHOLE-HEARTEDLY. That and the Sky Whirl and trolley.

I always loved the train there. Especially working there at night and hearing it's lonely whistle as it headed back to the barn for a rest. I know it was diesel, it would have been even better if it were steam. But I still enjoyed it.

The train always had a crown. I still can't believe they removed it. Something the whole family could do together.

By the way, is the Pictorium still in Chitown?


"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza
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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:19 AM
Mamoosh's avatar Nate - You're going to compare the costs for one of those small electric Chance trains that MiA got to a huge locomotive?...the kind that operate at Disneyland, Cedar Point, and on the main rails at Knotts?

To get an idea of their size here's two photos showing people standing next to the locomotive:

MIA
Knotts

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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:31 AM
My estimate on it was based basically what it would cost to build Kings Island's or CP's RR today. STEAM and Narrow Gauge. By God, it cost 33 dollars a foot just for rail 26 dollars a tie, Now lets say it's 6000ft X TWO
Chuck, Also extimating a Crown sized locomotive to be about 1.5 million *** Edited 1/25/2008 4:34:01 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***
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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:45 AM
God Bless Dollywood!
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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:54 AM
Dollywoods engines built today would be over 3 mill each and they put about 800,000 grand in them every ten to fifteen years for a overhaul of tubes and flues.

My father and I made a trip to Cass about four years ago, Those are Shay engines narrow gauge but much smaller and lighter than full size 2-4-0 Narrow gauge, They had a boiler and firebox made from the company that makes the boilers for the Navy's Nuclear Subs and Ships and that boiler/firebox combo was 2 million. They guy in the engine house chuckled when he told us because a new Shay in 1903 the year the locomotive they were replacing the boiler on, Cost $2,200 He says they now got a 1903 2,002,200 dollar Shay!

Lumpy will tell you, They've got a steamer up there at Whitewater Valley that hasn't been under steam in what? 15 years (Lucky I got a cab ride in it). It's tough to raise the time and money needed, have the manpower with the knowledge to do it then maintain it.

Chuck *** Edited 1/25/2008 4:55:01 PM UTC by Charles Nungester*** *** Edited 1/25/2008 5:01:02 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

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Friday, January 25, 2008 11:58 AM

Charles Nungester said:
By God, it cost 33 dollars a foot just for rail 26 dollars a tie, Now lets say it's 6000ft X TWO
Chuck, Also extimating a Crown sized locomotive to be about 1.5 million *** Edited 1/25/2008 4:34:01 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

Yes by God it would cost 33 dollars a foot but by anyone else it is actually more expensive. That's just a little known fact.


My band "The Cedar Kings". "Ordinary Day" a trip report in song.
http://www.myspace.com/mmiddleton87

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Friday, January 25, 2008 12:05 PM
To many used operating locomotives available to by a new locomotive. IF not, why did Disney trade engines with CP. The one they traded was purchased used. The costs are still high to install a railroad.

Currently available Equipment:

CP & Knotts has three spares between them. (One is operable and two do need rebuilds)

Late 1800's 0-6-0 30" gauge steam locomotive $96,000 as is and $250,000 restored, plus additional $10,000 to reguage to 36".

36" locomotive and five cars. 18 ton, Forney-style 0-6-4RT steam locomotive was built by Porter in 1911. Fitted with new ASME boiler in 1972. Five passenger coaches. Price: $205,000 "as-is, where-is"

36" locomotive, built in 1919 by the Porter Locomotive Works as a 0-4-0T switcher, rebuilt for an amusement park into a 2-4-0 with a custom built tender. Over 1 million dollars was spent on the locomotives rebuilding, it is wood fired, in operating condition. Some of the mechanical details include: Sliding valves, mechanical lubricator, turbo generator, boiler pressure 170 lbs, steam brakes. Headlights, gauges, bell, etc go with unit but have been removed to prevent them from being stolen. PRICE: $270,000 *** Edited 1/25/2008 5:07:42 PM UTC by lumpy72***


William W. Gray, CuratorWhitewater Valley RailroadConnersville, Indiana

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Friday, January 25, 2008 12:11 PM

Mamoosh said:
Nate - You're going to compare the costs for one of those small electric Chance trains that MiA got to a huge locomotive?

No, what I said was that a park like Great America could very well build a railroad for less than $55 million dollars.

-Nate

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Friday, January 25, 2008 12:13 PM
#100 went home to Florida last March. It will be preserved by the company that used it last before we moved it to Indiana. We bring in an operable steam locomotive around labor day for two weekends. It is more afforadble than us mainting it the entire season. We did recieve an 90 ton ex-New York Central 0-6-0 steam switcher a couple of years ago. Looking it over to see if it will be a cosmetic restoration or operating restoration in the future.

William W. Gray, CuratorWhitewater Valley RailroadConnersville, Indiana

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Friday, January 25, 2008 12:56 PM
Thanks Lumpy, I seen at www.steamlocomotive.info where you got rid of it and got another.

What you guys do is great but for Metamora to be authentic is steam.

Not a knock, plan on swinging up for a ride or two this year.

Chuck

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