No Way!

Anyone have any idea when in '06 it's scheduled to open? There's a conference next year about this time at WDW that I may go to, and this could influence my decision (who says business before pleasure?).

I'm sorry if you all took my post the wrong way, and I'm not saying that they should build a recordbreaking coaster but the whole mindset of their additions I don't understand.

I've never been a fan on Disney parks. I remember nearly passing out from heat stroke waiting in line for themed but mediocre rides. The biggest surprise at a Disney park was MGM. Both Tower of Terror and Rockin' Rollercoaster were great rides.

Sometimes I feel like I'd rather have them add new rides that are cheaper but more thrilling, which is what CP does.

I just find it stupid to go to Disney for $55 or $60, or whatever it is now, have to wait in long lines for borind rides, when you can go to Busch Gardens for about the same price, if not less, which is just a short drive away. There you can get 3 great B&M's, a great wooden coaster(s) and an awesome zoo. Better yet, go to CP and for $45 you can get 16 rollercoasters. It just seems more worth it to me. Sure they have great rides, but if I want themed rides I'd rather go to Universal where they combine excellent thrills. I mean when I was there at Magic Kingdom, Dumbo had over an hour wait! I could go to CP and ride most of the coasters that are much more exciting for half the wait.

Just my opinion.

You're welcome to your opinion, but also realize that Disney is not targeting your demographic. They're definitely looking more for families with smaller kids who stay at resorts, buy all meals in park, and go home with a sack full of souveniers. Don't go to Disney if it doesn't appeal to you, but don't get on their case for catering to a different audience.

If only the entire world was made up of 16 year-old thrillseekers, then you'd have a valid point or two. =p

+Danny

Are you telling me that families don't go to Six Flags or Cedar Fair Parks?

Do you know what a family is? A family isn't just parents with 5 year olds. A family is parents with kids of all ages, up to 18 when they head off to college.

I have a little brother who's now 8, and although he's a coaster junkie like me and has ridden every coaster at Cedar Point, there was still a ton to do for his friend who doesn't like rollercoasters that much (Although he did go on TTD and MF.)

It's possible for thrill parks to be family oriented or else they wouldn't be in business would they?

Like you said the entire world isn't made up of 16 year old thrill seekers and they're still doing fine.

Edit: *Yawn* Thanks for proving my point.

+Danny *** Edited 7/17/2005 4:50:16 PM UTC by +Danny***

What do you mean? How did I prove YOUR point?

If you had a family with 4 kids, two being teenagers and two being kids between the ages of 5-10, where would you go, Busch Gardens or Disney?

And what Danny said is 100% correct. Marketing to 16yo thrill seekers is the absolute wrong way to go.

It's the 25+ crowd that has and spends the money and how does a park get that crowd? By making the EXPERIENCE and not one ride pleasurable enough to make people want to come back and at least willing to do so.

Chuck Saying 100 mill isn't small change but it's kinda penuts in Disneys overal budget.

Yes that is true but if that was completely true than Disney would be the only park in business right now.

For example, Cedar Point is a great experience for most people, even if you don't like coasters. Just because it isn't themed doesn't make it a bad or unsuccessful park.

I was probably wrong in saying that Everest is a complete waste of money but there are plenty of family parks that focus on thrill rides combined with customer service and the park experience, such as Holiday World, that are successful as well.

Thrill rides are important, teenagers are part of families and oftentimes influence where families go. Most dads enjoy rollercoasters, and alot of moms do too. By making a park 90% focused on children's rides, the park needs to open up to a larger audience. Same goes if 90% of the rides are thrill rides.

*** Edited 7/17/2005 5:24:55 PM UTC by Ride of Steel***

There's more to Disney than Dumbo and teenagers aren't all so transparent to be thinking *thrills, thrills, thrills*. If you would have asked me from 13-19 (and now 20) if I'd rather go to Disney or Busch Gardens, I would have told you both.. And I usually got both. But overall, I'd rather have the Disney experience. It's just a matter of personal preference for everyone. I can do coasters, animals, and then some at Disney. Can't forget all the waterparks, the nightlife, Downtown Disney, the experience.

That does it for me, but I totally know where *you're* coming from as far as what interests you and I know a lot of people do want the most thrilling things and Disney usually isn't for them compared to Cedar Point and Six Flags. I'm not going to deny there being thrill rides at Disney though... Tower of Terror, Test Track, Mission: Space, Rock N Roller Coaster, Star Tours, Body Wars, Dinosaur, Space Mountain, Expedition Everest,.. Then there are the countries in World Showcase at EPCOT, Living with the Land, Soarin' Over California, Buzz Lightyear, the Fantasyland dark rides, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, It's Tough to Be a Bug, Splash Mountain, the Safari, Festival of the Lion King,..

Sooo exciting for me and a lot of kids, parents, and grandparents eat it up. There are plenty of teen and young adult Disney fans as well. And this is *not* to say that there aren't many a thrill-seeker, coaster lover, and then family experiences that you can have at Cedar Point and other amusement parks. I was just showing the side of the spectrum that you claimed you "don't understand". You're defending an argument that doesn't exist here.

+Danny *** Edited 7/17/2005 5:28:51 PM UTC by +Danny***

I'm still suprised they haven't started an IoA type park to try to put them out of business. I know its not their style, but IoA seems to be doing pretty well with a couple of beemers, and you know Disney could win that game and squash the Universal crowd if they wanted to.

I'm even of the opinion that they could turn the current MGM studios into a more thrilling park. Right now, it seems as if families with kids tall enough to go on 'bigger' rides are more apt to go to Universal parks, and that is the reason Disney's lack of thrill rides throws me.

Maybe I'm just being selfish, but I think it would do them well to add a couple of more rides with some fire power if for nothing else than to compete with Universal.

You know during my trip last year I visited SFoG, IOA, Universal, and Epcot fairly close to each other. While Epcot lacked in the thrilling rides department (I wasn't entirely all that impressed by Mission: Space, but I did find Test Track was a fun ride), I think that it may have been my favorite park I visited during that trip. People don't go for the 'mindblowing thrills' they go for the family atmosphere and rides that the whole family can ride together. At Cedar Point or any other "thrill park" families will more than likely have to split up at more than one point because "Sally is scared of <blank> ride" or "Jim will get too sick on Puke: The Ride." I'm not saying that Disney has no cases where people will have to split up. Certainly Tower of Terror, Rock N Rollercoaster, and Mission: Space aren't everyone's cup of tea. But overall it is a much more family oriented park that everyone can enjoy together.

Just like CP would have a tough time selling a coaster they could not claim some kind of record for, Disney would have a tough time selling a thrill ride they did not theme to perfection. These parks seemed to have painted themselves into corners, and that is not a bad thing since they both seem to be doing very well in their respective corners.

I know MF was brought up in the beginning of the discussion, but I honestly don't see the comparison between MF/TTD and EE, (or any Disney attraction).

Disney is known for their elaborate themes & CP is known for their coasters speed, height, ect. TTD is about the most massively themed CP has ever got, (please...don't bring up Disaster Transport...j/k).

$100 mill. is not too much to spend when your Disney! It's absolutely acceptable because you know the finished product will be awesome. If you were SF you'd have to sell 3-4 more parks off though (j/k... again!).

Flame me if you will but IMO Disney spends major money on theme, because most of the time the ride is lame. It seams like Disney is more concerned with the wrapping paper then with the present inside if you catch my drift.

They build at 200 foot tall mountain but the ride inside is bearly at the 100 foot level. I'm not saying they should of made a 200 foot drop, but they could have used more of the mountain to make a longer ride. Instead they built a 200 foot beautiful gift box and put a crappy 100 foot Vekoma gift inside. That's going to have a crappy length to be inside a structure of that magnitude.

Imo I just wish Disney rides were as good on the inside as they look on the outside. I have never been impressed with anything Disney has every done and I don't think I ever will be.

Yes I know i'm tying myself to the stake so flame as you wish ;O)

Hmm, I'm not totally sure I know what you're getting at. I think all the Disney "thrill rides" (Tower of Terror, Rock N Roller Coaster, California Screamin', Test Track, Space Mountain, Matterhorn,..) are already fun and exciting and the theming just adds that extra element. If you're talking about the dark rides (Pirates of the Caribbean, Winnie the Pooh, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth,..) and even the "dark thrill rides" (Indiana Jones, Dinosaur,..), that's totally missing the point again. No one would purposely buy "lame rides" only to theme them.

+Danny *** Edited 7/18/2005 12:55:43 AM UTC by +Danny***

I always thought that Space Mountain and BTMRR would be the worst coasters ever if they took away everything except the track and supports. ToT is not far behind that. It is not much for a drop ride, but with the theming, it works very well. RnR is average till you add the theming. Test Track? Are you serious? All that is is theming.

Having said that, it is not just wrapping paper. Wrapping paper is the theming on Dueling Dragons that adds nothing to the ride experience. Disney does inhance the ride experience. In fact, it offers a different ride experience and they are offering what they want to offer.

...[Disney] put a crappy 100 foot Vekoma gift inside...

Right. And how many times have you ridden it to say that it is a 'crappy Vekoma'? Huh? How many times? I wanna know! Is it rought? How was the themeing? Good soundtrack? Airtime? How bout the backwards moments?

It is pointless, Danny. Disney sux, nobody in their right minds go to any Disney parks, and none of their rides are thrilling, the themeing is good, but the actual ride is poorly executed.

Wasn't there something recently in the news about Disneyland, which has greatly themed, yet poorly executed rides, turning some milestone anniversary? I doubt it, I mean, if they were doing as bad as stated before, they wouldn't have been around all these 20 years or so...

Yeah, Big Thunder definitely wouldn't be as fun, but Space Mountain always gave me "stomach in my throat" feelings, so I figured that would still be good times. Same goes for Tower of Terror. I love the outside part of Test Track, so I could enjoy it without the theming.. it *does* make it much better though.

+Danny

I've always found the Maqic Kingdom coasters to be weak. Space Mountain is just a galaxy indoors with a cool space theme. And they do a good job with the theme, it does feel like you are in space, but as soon as you hear the old rickety Arrow lift hill it sorta ruins the affect, as does the 80s 'modern' theme. It's just like if you go to Cedar Point. Go ride MF and look at the station. Very modern, and 'spacelike' right? 2K symbols are painted on the stations, very modern lights, like the toaster lights. Now go to Magnum look at the station. It yells 80s right at you. Same 'space like' theme that MF has but from an older generation.

This relates to Magic Kingdom because I've always felt their rides are outdated. All three mountains are decades old, and while they are well themed and still popular, I mean, who doesn't know what Space Mountain is? Disney has planted that ride into everyone's head even though it only goes 30 mph.

Rides like Rockin Rollercoaster work well because it's modern technology that the've combined into a themed attraction. If they keep going in this direction than they'll do fine but with Universal and Busch, they need some new rides to keep growing.

Although Disney is geared toward young kids, but the teenage audience shouldn't be the major focus, but it is an important one.

My mom hates Disney with a passion. She doesn't even like coasters that much anymore, although she'll ride MF and Raptor each year at CP. It's possible at thrill parks for everyone to have fun. I see more people having fun just sitting at the TTD grandstand and watching trains launched.

I guess everyone just has their type of park that they enjoy and Disney has never been mine. I like places that get 'right to the point' with their thrill rides lol but the world doesn't revolve around me. (Although it should.. ;) )