no ravine flyer2 in the coaster buzz top 100

Lord Gonchar said: That's essentially where I ended with my wordy post above. :)

I never made it to the end. I got half way through and then it all became "blah blah blah..." to me

(kidding, 'natch ;))

Lord Gonchar said:
It's almost the inverse of your complaints about Mitch's poll. In being so strict with the data, the list misses obvious truths.

Which is why no poll is perfect. How you decide what data is relevant is what affects the outcome of the poll. I'm not criticizing the poll. But, I'm also not arguing with you Gonch. I think everyone is right and wrong at the same time. Hopefully that made sense. :)

Funniest part is, like I said, that if we toss out the fringe anomalies from the polls, both lists are strikingly similar.

Even scarier? They look a lot like the Golden Tickets. :)

I find that very amusing.

I'm curious if there is a way use the current data to come up with a list of parks with the best collection of coasters. Top 20 maybe?

Lord Gonchar said:
I get that. But my repeated, gentle prodding comes with the fact that despite following all the best scientific precedent the results are still flawed in a way that ignores the reality.

Wow, you're getting all existential on me. And the worst thing about that is that it makes me do the same!

If a bear craps in the woods... wait... Can a coaster in Korea that only 20 people have ridden and expressed an opinion on truly represent an average? The other hundreds of people in that poll who did not ride it can't have an opinion about it if they didn't ride it, so therefore that opinion doesn't exist. In a way, we're all trying to compensate for what doesn't exist the most. I believe doing that requires more opinions.

That's what's called statistical significance, by the way. I hate to be the guy making it all academic over and over, but smart people with advanced degrees sit around and think about this crap all day. :)

And as we've said before, the other well vetted phenomenon in polling is that selection bias can change the outcome heavily. If you're that motivated to go all the way to Korea to ride something, you've already committed more to it.

If Mitch cut off his poll with some arbitrary minimum number of riders, I'd probably consider it The Holy Gospel. But even with my liberal arts intro classes in math and science, I just can't get around the statistical significance issue.

Besides, the CoasterBuzz 100 is more fun because it's always changing. Or so someone else said and I agreed. :)

Jason Hammond said:
I'm curious if there is a way use the current data to come up with a list of parks with the best collection of coasters. Top 20 maybe?

How would you figure that? Take a park like Kings Island. Diamondback is a top-10 in our list, and The Beast (for better or worse) is also rated pretty well. Would it be "unfairly" penalized because SOB and Vortex suck the sweat off a dead man's... you know? On the other hand, a park like Dorney has a whole bunch of really solid rides, diverse in nature, but none are really best in their class. Holiday World only has three adult coasters, and all are highly rated, but is it really a "collection" with only three?

See, thinking is hard. :)

Lord Gonchar said:
Even scarier? They look a lot like the Golden Tickets. :)

Wasn't Mean Streak the #10 wood coaster in the world a few years ago according to GT? :)

I was thinking about Holiday World when I wrote the post. That's whay I said "Curious". I have no idea how it would work. Maybe in the same way you've only used the top half of the users data, maybe you only use the data regarding the (3?) most ridden coasters at each park.

I only even started thinking about this because Gonch mentioned the similarites of the list to the AT poll. So you can blame him. :) There are many catagories that are voted on. The "best park" vote seemed like the only other possible one that could be derived from this data. Though I'm not sure how.

birdhombre said:
Wasn't Mean Streak the #10 wood coaster in the world a few years ago according to GT? :)

Things like that are why a lot of people don't like the AT poll. It's basically a popularity contest. It was a good ride when it opened. With not everyone riding every coaster every year, many opinions are based on past experiences and with that it can take longer for a deteriorating ride to fall off a list. That being said, it's highest rank was 9th in 2003. It slowly dropped from there and was completely off the top 50 wood list in 2008.

For some reason, I'm thinking that GT has a methodology that favors quantity over quality meaning more-ridden rides - like say, anything at CP or KI, and Orlando-area rides (to wit, Hulk), get an unfair advantage. GT does, however, seek out those with lots of *experience* to attempt to correct for that flaw. Basically, the idea is this: there can be no "true and accurate objective methodology".

That being said, I did just get my GT ballot in the mail, and I really think I've got some valid things to say this year...I've made a serious effort to get out and ride in 2010, and let's just say that one ballot is getting a "new" Anton near the top of his steel rankings. Still love Shockwave to pieces, though.

Side note: one of the flaws on even my ballot - I haven't ridden SFNE's Bizarro since the, errr, "enhancement"....and I almost think I'd prefer to keep it atop my steel ballot regardless - it WAS the greatest thing I'd ever ridden (although PITs tell me I'd probably rate Ex GeForce above the initial offering of the SFNE ride.

Here's a puzzler - where do people think I *should* rank the SFNE ride? :)

rollergator said:
For some reason, I'm thinking that GT has a methodology that favors quantity over quality meaning more-ridden rides - like say, anything at CP or KI, and Orlando-area rides (to wit, Hulk), get an unfair advantage.

That's true

GT does, however, seek out those with lots of *experience* to attempt to correct for that flaw.

That's also true

That being said, I did just get my GT ballot in the mail,

Me too

I've made a serious effort to get out and ride in 2010, and let's just say that one ballot is getting a "new" Anton near the top of his steel rankings.

I travel as much as my means allow. I have new wood and steel pushing their way into my list this year as well.

I haven't ridden SFNE's Bizarro since the, errr, "enhancement"....and I almost think I'd prefer to keep it atop my steel ballot regardless - it WAS the greatest thing I'd ever ridden (although PITs tell me I'd probably rate Ex GeForce above the initial offering of the SFNE ride.

I finally got a chance to ride it since the change. I do not like the new restraints. They really dig into my legs. And I find the "enhancements" distracting. Being that I wear glasses, I don't like the fog at all. The music is hard to hear during the ride and it's way to loud in the station. I have also been told that I will probably love GeForce as well. It was described to me as the best of Millennium combined with the best of Bizarro.

Here's a puzzler - where do people think I *should* rank the SFNE ride? :)

That's the one thing I don't like about the AT poll. Knowing that everyone can't ride every ride every year, they encourage the use of various sources to formulate your opinion. Forums, Blogs, You Tube, trip reports, etc. I know my opinions regularly differer from my friends. So, I don't like voting for rides I haven't ridden.

What the hell is GT?

LOL, sorry...Golden Tickets. Unfortunately, they're not *quite* as good as the Wonka ones... ;)

...and honestly, I'd have to give up my ballot before I could vote for something I had not ridden. My experience n any ride could not be accurately described by anyone else....nor could the reverse be true. I know who TENDS to hold opinions similar to mine...but that doesn't mean I could substitute their opinions for mine.

Jeff said:
Wow, you're getting all existential on me. And the worst thing about that is that it makes me do the same!

Heh. Well, because I think that, oddly enough, you just might need more than cold hard numbers to do this accurately. In this case getting hung up on the scientific validity is just as bad as ignoring it and delivering equally bizarre results.

Lord Gonchar said:
Now if someone really wants to make the definitive list - do a mash-up of the data from all three lists (CB, GT and Mitch) and present the aggregate. ;)

Ok. Let's do woodies real quick-like. The rules are:

1. A coaster has to appear on two of the three lists (that eliminates the weirdness of a coaster with too small of a sample either being included or excluded in any single poll)

2. Rank in each poll (after coasters are removed as in step 1) is averaged and considered that coaster's score.

3.Coasters are then ranked into the definitive list by score (lower is better).

4. No brass knuckles.

So without further ado, Gonch's definitive wooden coaster poll results for the time period ending right now:

1. Voyage
2. El Toro
3. Boulder Dash
4. Phoenix
5. Ravine Flyer II
6. Thunderhead
7. Prowler
8. Raven
9. Hades
10. Shivering Timbers
11. Balder
12. Evel Knievel
13. Colossos
14. Lightning Racer
15. Tremors
16. Kentucky Rumbler
17. Legend
18. Hellcat
19. Beast
20. Cornball Express
21. Rampage
22. Coaster (Playland)
23. Comet (Great Escape)
24. Cyclone (Astroland)
25. Troy
26. T Express
27. Megafobia
28. Ghostrider
29. Screechin' Eagle
30. Ozark Wildcat

Do I win the research grant or did I just create another arbitrary way to state the obvious? Numbers are hard and stuff...

Just out of curiosity, since I know the AT poll is the top 50, can I assume that there were 20 of the top 50 in the AT poll that didn't appear on at least one of the other 2 lists? Or didn't you get that far?

Hey, the fortune in my fortune cookie today read, "Statistics are no substitute for judgment." Right on. :)

^^^^

But gonch, terminator salvation is not on that list? What gives?;)

Jason - No I just stopped listing in the post at 30.

Technically, all the coasters on Jeff's and the AT poll would appear on Mitch's at least, as it lists every wooden coaster. :)

Went top 50 with AT poll, all 26 on the CB list. Only 4 of Jeff's aren't on AT's top 50. Then went with process of elimination on Mitch's and got as far as 67 on Mitch's (which left 46 after elimination).

My final list had 47 coasters on it. Which seemed like more than enough to post a top 10 or 20 list like a smart ass in this thread. (yes, I could have gone to 50 with AT & Mitch pairings, but I stopped at 47 because I like odd numbers...or something)

I ended up posting the top 30 above just because I had the info. It was an arbitrary stopping point.

Carrie - that's the wisest fortune to ever come from a cookie. Usually the best fortunes come from tellers...like bank tellers and stuff.

(Other than bank and fortune, are there other kinds of tellers?)

crazy horse - Terminator would have come in at 38 if I had posted a longer list. :)

Carrie M. said:
Hey, the fortune in my fortune cookie today read, "Statistics are no substitute for judgment."

...in bed?

Lord Gonchar said:
(Other than bank and fortune, are there other kinds of tellers?)

Two come to mind: Edward Teller, physicist heavily involved in the making of the H-Bomb...and second, (and even more important), the partner of Penn Gillette. ;)

I've got two more:

...there's a Teller County in Colorado.
...there was a Teller Amendment enacted on April 19, 1898.

rollergator said:
...and second, (and even more important), the partner of Penn Gillette. ;)

I'd say he's most important. :)