New soft strap restraints installed on I-305

Friday, June 25, 2010 12:24 PM
Jeff's avatar

Yes, the Dragster seats are deeper, putting your knees higher than your butt, and the lap bar post has a bend in it so it touches your legs before your nuts. It's a definite improvement.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Phrazy

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Friday, June 25, 2010 1:14 PM

Actually your knees are higher than your butt on Millennium Force as well, but the seat isn't as deep. That's the critical (but less obvious) difference between Millennium Force and Superman. It has been a while since I have ridden it, but I think the foot pockets on Dragster lack the toe bar that Millennium Force has, but it isn't necessary because with the deeper seat you still can't drop your knee lower than the lap bar.

Also, I'm pretty sure Dragster's lap bar is wider than the one on Millennium Force. But that kink in the bar is a huge improvement, especially when there are attendants who unfortunately believe that "tighter = safer" and just love to shove down on the darned things. The Dragster design is, in that case, a lot safer. No pinching.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.


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Friday, June 25, 2010 9:47 PM

As anyone can tell you who has ridden Magnum with a trim and without a trim, a small amount of speed can make a huge difference on the amount of airtime you receive.

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Friday, June 25, 2010 10:00 PM
Jeff's avatar

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison though. Because Magnum is so under-engineered (I still maintain that it was a positive "accident" on Arrow's part), changes in speed over those peaks can make a big difference. The more modern and long parabolic curves on rides like 305 don't have obvious differences in airtime.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Phrazy

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:21 AM

Kick The Sky said:
The guy in the video said something about these straps possibly accommodating larger riders? Is this something Cedar Point could put on MF to replace the seat belts and reduce the walks of shame?

I personally would love that. I have always hated the older style Intamin mega coaster trains. They hurt my legs and the belts are tight and hard to get to. These harnesses (soft ones) are VERY nice and would certainly allow MANY more people to ride. This of course also helps load time, the less time your removing people, or trying to get them into the ride, the faster the line moves.


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:26 AM

BBSpeed26 said:

Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN said:
The ride still hits 90mph. Thats what its been clocked at even after the trims. This was told to us by John Pagel last Saturday at Hurlfest.



No way. I absolutely do not believe that, and you shouldn't either. The speed difference between 94mph and 90mph would be almost imperceptible, and there is an extremely noticeable difference between the 94mph trimless version and what they have running now, both on the ride AND off. Just look at the second hill: consistent ejector over a radius that large (aka the way it ran pre-trim) is not rendered incredibly weak floater/barely-air with a -4mph difference.

I'd love to see side-by-side POVs of the pre-and post-trim rides. I would bet money that from the time the train crests the lift to the time the ride hits the first bunny hop at the end of the ride (where the original trims were), there's a 5+ second difference (which would be, to say the least, significant). In fact, when I get home from work I just might see if I can prove that.

I’m going with Duane of RCDB on this one: “When the Intimidator 305 opened it claimed a top speed of 94 mph.Changes made to the ride in the first few months of operation limit it's speed to 79.5 mph." (source)

The only way it'd still be in the 90mph range is if they went up the first hill and removed the majority of those trims.

Well, another thing that was mentioned to us at Hurlfest was that 94mph is what the park *cough cough* saying it went, hinting to us that it was going faster that 94 prior to the trims. So, if it WAS going faster, then it being 90mph now could be a real speed. I have been on it 190 times, the first 150 times were pre trims. After the first drop I can't tell much of a difference in the speed, and the ride duration is the same time. They also said they have no clue where RCDB got this 79.5 mph, the park never released a speed after the trims were added, nor has anyone outside the park clocked it, they would have to have let someone in with equipment to do so, and they have not.


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:29 AM

I rode with the new restraints multiple times tonight (Friday 6-25-10). I really do like them. Honestly I liked the other ones too, but these are better and more comfortable for most riders. The straps are soft, but have a very thin piece of metal in them to keep their shape, but there is more than enough padding on them to feel completly soft. They rest cleaning on your shoulders and flex slightly, so air time is still there. I actually felt a little more air than what I used to get because of the slight give in the harness.
I think ANY coaster with over the shoulder restraints could benefit from these. I believe some people will rank this coaster a bit higher than what they did prior to these harnesses. There is no headbanging at all.

Danny


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:27 AM
Jeff's avatar

I have a hard time believing that the train was going much faster than Millennium Force for (give or take a few feet) essentially the same drop distance on similar trains that presumably have similar friction characteristics. Someone want to bust out the physics calculator at 9.81 m/s?


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Phrazy

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:56 AM

Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN said:

These harnesses (soft ones) are VERY nice and would certainly allow MANY more people to ride. This of course also helps load time, the less time your removing people, or trying to get them into the ride, the faster the line moves.

This is not my experience. I've ridden the Intamin Zacspins in Europe which have the soft strap restraints. Whilst I agree that they are probably more comfortable for many riders than the system used on KK, I-305 etc, there is no way on earth that they improve loading times. Quite the opposite in fact.

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:13 PM

Jeff said:
I have a hard time believing that the train was going much faster than Millennium Force for (give or take a few feet) essentially the same drop distance on similar trains that presumably have similar friction characteristics. Someone want to bust out the physics calculator at 9.81 m/s?

Well, I don't know all the facts on that for sure haha. But I can say that I know these trains are heavier than MF's trains and being a steeper drop could have played into it. So that being said it appears to have been faster. Also, 305 didn't go back up right away, MFs speed is killed off by going back up on its first element.


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:17 PM

Martin Valt said:

Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN said:


These harnesses (soft ones) are VERY nice and would certainly allow MANY more people to ride. This of course also helps load time, the less time your removing people, or trying to get them into the ride, the faster the line moves.

This is not my experience. I've ridden the Intamin Zacspins in Europe which have the soft strap restraints. Whilst I agree that they are probably more comfortable for many riders than the system used on KK, I-305 etc, there is no way on earth that they improve loading times. Quite the opposite in fact.

Well, I am talking about loading times Vs the other style Intamin mega coaster trains. People spend a lot of time getting bumped off and having people trying to secure them in, that takes time. My point is less people are getting bumped off now, so they load and go. And I wasn't saying the soft straps were faster loading than the hard straps on 305, I am saying Vs the other style of trains like on MF. Some of this may have to do with the parks operations too.

I can say that KD is getting trains out on 305 a lot faster than they are on Dominator and Anaconda and so on.


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:33 PM

Well, I am talking about loading times Vs the other style Intamin mega coaster trains. People spend a lot of time getting bumped off and having people trying to secure them in, that takes time. My point is less people are getting bumped off now, so they load and go. And I wasn't saying the soft straps were faster loading than the hard straps on 305, I am saying Vs the other style of trains like on MF. Some of this may have to do with the parks operations too.

I can say that KD is getting trains out on 305 a lot faster than they are on Dominator and Anaconda and so on.


Indeed. When I rode I-305 about a month back, the dispatch times were very impressive. In fact, they were pretty much the only impressive thing about the ride :)

Last edited by Martin Valt, Saturday, June 26, 2010 4:03 PM
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:58 PM
DantheCoasterman's avatar

But, keep in mind, you're talking about completely different crews. You can't accurately compare dispatch intervals on various coasters based solely on their restraint systems.


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN said:
Also, 305 didn't go back up right away, MFs speed is killed off by going back up on its first element.

While the top speed may not be retained for as long, this wouldn't have any noticeable effect on the maximum speed that the train reaches.


-Daniel

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 5:48 PM

DantheCoasterman said:
But, keep in mind, you're talking about completely different crews. You can't accurately compare dispatch intervals on various coasters based solely on their restraint systems.

No, but you can on the potential... Different crews yes, but the fact remains if people are getting bumped off trains and they are taking time to either help the person try to get in the harness or have to ask them to leave, you are waiting in line for that over and over on the likes of MF's harnesses. My entire point is that these harnesses fit more people and there is less time devoted to the above.


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 6:58 PM
Jeff's avatar

Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN said:
Well, I don't know all the facts on that for sure haha. But I can say that I know these trains are heavier than MF's trains and being a steeper drop could have played into it.

We don't know that the trains are heavier (MF trains are a car longer, by the way), but even if we did, it wouldn't matter. Things fall to earth at the same rate. The only potentially different thing, as I stated, is the amount of friction involved.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Phrazy

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:52 PM
rollergator's avatar

^Similarly, negating the effects of friction loss, angle of descent makes no discernable difference in terms of final speed achieved. (I think of Beast's drop into the helix as being the prime example of this effect - shallowest drop anywhere, LOL).

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 11:49 PM

Jeff said:
We don't know that the trains are heavier (MF trains are a car longer, by the way), but even if we did, it wouldn't matter. Things fall to earth at the same rate. The only potentially different thing, as I stated, is the amount of friction involved.

I was told the trains are a bit heavier than previous mega coaster trains on the rides media day. I know that MFs trains have one more car, so honestly I don't know which train weighs more, no actual numbers were given. But an 8 cars on an I 305 train will weigh more than 8 cars of an MF or Superman train.

But momentum can make a difference during the duration of the ride. Look at a racing coaster, a fully loaded train always beats out an empty train, difference is weight.


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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Saturday, June 26, 2010 11:50 PM
Jeff's avatar

You weren't arguing for momentum, you were arguing about velocity.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Phrazy

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:19 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

eightdotthree said:
Does that mean you rode it Gonchar? Interested to hear your opinion.

From the Coasterimage Facebook page:

"Now having more time to settle and process it, it really was nothing special. I stick with the original assessment - part Millennium Force, part Maverick...just the worst parts of each. The meandering do-nothing speed parts of MF combined with the twisty bangy parts of Maverick.

Although, like I said, people were exiting the ride and simply raving about it. And not just some people - tons of people. No one gives a crap about the trims. Huge win for Kings Dominion."


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Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:26 PM

Jeff said:
You weren't arguing for momentum, you were arguing about velocity.

No, not really, just saying it went faster and for a longer period of time. The track design has more to do with that than anything. A heavier train going on an exact drop should go longer and faster than a lighter train during the duration of the ride. (I don't mean fall faster) 8^)


Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN
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