New CP ride, hydraulic launch or not?

Sunday, October 20, 2002 7:25 PM

Earlier today I was looking over the photos at Twistedrails of the Xcelerator construction. I've noticed a lot of fairly obvious differences between the two. I will say up front that it's possible Intamin may have improved the design and was able to change the placement of some compenents, but these are just some things I noticed:

First off there isn't a large trench for the hydraulic equipment underneath the end of the launch section at CP, if there is I've failed to see it from the construction photos. The installation of the hydrualic equipment was the first thing done on Xcel, CP has yet to install any of it. Then there are the supports on the end of the launch track of Xcel. There are two supports supporting the last piece of track on the launch and the support before that final piece has a hole cut into it for the cable of the launch sled to travel through. I've seen nothing similar to this on the CP construction site. One other small thing is that the launch track on Xcel already had the gap in the middle which the launch sled device travels along. In the track photos from CP there aren't any pieces I've seen that have the slot for the sled to travel through.

Not that it makes any difference, but is it possible this could be a LIM/LSM launch and not a hydraulic one?

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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 7:45 PM
LIMs are not nearly strond enough to project a train to that speed in that amount of time. As for LSMs, look at Superman: The Escape- the motors can just get it to 100mph in the amount of space the ride takes up.

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CCN's forums are now fully operational.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:46 PM
Um...I'm not really convinced. If you give the LIM's enough juice or just slap more motors on there (and more fins on the cars), they'll propel anything as fast as you want it. (okay, that might be a *little* exaggerated). If you want to make your LIM launch stronger, it's theoretically not very difficult.

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You must be this dumb to ride Viper. -SFGAdv.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:51 PM
LIM's are electromagnets, therefore, the more juice you give them, the faster they will propell things. The only reason I know this is because our class had a big discussion on electromagnets last year and I brought up the LIM's on Superman: The Escape at SFMM.
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Monday, October 21, 2002 2:03 AM

Yea. More juice. Put a thousand amps through a 1 HP motor and see what happens.

You can only put so much juice into a given motor/LIM/LSM before it burns up. I don't know much about lims, but they do have their limits just like everything else. Will LIMs or LSMs work, I don't know, but there is more to it than just adding more juice. ;)

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The worst day at Cedar Point is better than the best day at work.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 2:54 AM
Superman: the Escape and the Tower of Terror(Australia) get to their top speeds when they are travling down/back to the station. It says "0-to top speed in 7 seconds" but it takes like 4 seconds to get to the top, so yeah.
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Monday, October 21, 2002 4:34 AM
Maybe it isn't even a launched coaster at CP, maybe it just has a 90ยบ lift hill ;) j/k
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Monday, October 21, 2002 7:57 AM

LIMs- Wicked Twister (and other implulses), Flight of Fear

LSM- Superman: The Escape

There is a difference- a big difference between LIMs and LSMs.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 8:47 AM
Maybe it's because Knotts had a land constraint of railroad tracks. The launch is obviously on the opposite side (right) as well. Notice the dual tracks on the left. One for a brake run, the other for the return off of the top hat. Look for a over bank hill to be built around the top hat just like at Knotts.
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Monday, October 21, 2002 11:51 AM

If you haven't noticed, (Sarcasm) all the construction as of late has basically been on that tower. Cranes are expensive to rent. The reason Cedar Point is building the tower now is because construction can be more productive if they finish as much as possible before "hard" winter hits. You will see the ride topped-off as soon as possible.

With that said, why do the ground work when it's nice outside? Construction crews are working feverishly to do the "Big" stuff while they can. When the wind becomes a factor, crews will begin ground work for the rest of the ride, including the housing for the hydraulic pumps, launch equipment, launch track, and station.

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Jes
Jes's Roller Coasters DJ Jes MCS Please, Feel Free To Call Me Jes!
"Thank You Jeff Putz"

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Monday, October 21, 2002 12:58 PM

GoliathKills said:
LIMs are not nearly strond enough to project a train to that speed in that amount of time. As for LSMs, look at Superman: The Escape- the motors can just get it to 100mph in the amount of space the ride takes up.

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CCN's forums are now fully operational.


A friend of mine worked on some of the original LIMS back in the late 60's, early 70's with Ford Motor Company. They were moving 40,000 lb solid marble slabs down rails at very quick speeds. They were originally designed to move engines down an assembly line at 8 ft/second. Fascinating stuff. Anyway, what you say isn't necessarily true. LIM's can be as strong as you want them!

LIMS aren't actually motors, per se. The only moving part a LIM really needs is the cooling fan to cool off the magnets. They work on the principle of opposite magnetic poles repelling away from each other. Electricity is applied to the magnet(s) in a pulsating pattern, which pushes an object (in this case roller coaster train) down a track. While, yes, there probably is some limit to their speed, safety is another issue. Not safety speed wise, but electro-magnetic wave wise. The amount of electro-magnetic energy needed to propel a large heavy object (such as a roller coaster train) down a track at very fast speeds would no doubt be dangerous. I wonder if anyone's done any testing for such fields/forces around the lims we currently have. Back when they were being developed, my friend said that they didn't want to get close to the magnets, because of all the force. They didn't want cancer!

d8

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"Getting on Iron Wolf is kind of like going in a blender and pressing PUREE"

*** This post was edited by du8die on 10/21/2002. ***

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:12 PM

Yes, LIM's can be made stronger, but you have to look at the mechanism used to hold them, and the object that will be propelled. There are only so many functional locations you can place the "fins" on a coaster train, and that limits where the LIM's can be placed. Just upping the juice is not enough. LIM's have a *little* problem called overheating. Aside from that, you have to have a realistic way of providing the energy to launch.

Exactly where would you add more fins to the train?

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Waiting for the CP announcement to be made so that about 1000+ posts will be made complaining about it.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:54 PM
There are two major advantages of the hydraulic launch over the electromagnets...the rocket launch uses considerable less amounts of electricity, and it accelerates much faster. These advantages are definitely factors of why CP will get a rocket over LIM's.

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LocoBazooka--Sevendust, Nonpoint, Stereo Vent, Mushroomhead
Korn Tour (With no name)--Korn, Puddle of Mudd, Deadsy

*** This post was edited by CPgenius on 10/21/2002. ***

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Monday, October 21, 2002 5:44 PM

Thank you Zero-G. Somebody had to say it sooner or later.

Don't base you decisions upon the construction so far. It's throwing everybody off. It's also still very early in the off-season. Ask this if you don't see the hole in the ground in March.

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LeWiS

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Monday, October 21, 2002 5:46 PM
Not to mention that we don't see any LIM or LSM staters anywhere at all. And what else? That the type of coaster this ride will be, along with the first of its breed - Xcelerator, is of the Rocket Coaster production line, its highlight feature, the hydraulic catapult. Which is able to sustain up to 2 Gs throughout the entire take-off, which is unable to be done with LSM, Flywheel, Weight-drop, and LIM catapult systems.
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Monday, October 21, 2002 5:58 PM
Yeah, it feels like Xcelerator's acceleration increases throughout the launch. California Screamin's launch is very very weak compared to Xcelerator's.
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Monday, October 21, 2002 6:07 PM

i think Zero-G has the best common sense out of most of you.

seriously, if they got the cranes there now, get all that tower stuff done now, the rest will be easier.

also, if any of you remember, the CP diary for WT's construction posted clearly that all of the structure work was done before any of the LIM's were assembled. this could be the same way with CP's 2003 coaster.

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#1-MF #2-Apollo's Chariot #3-S:RoS

-Why a car if i could have a coaster train on wheels??

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Monday, October 21, 2002 7:04 PM

Heres some more common sense... Since the area the track enters the tower element is taller than XC's is, its easier for them to build the launch shack after the tower is complete. Who knows, maybe the launch system will be built in the tower structure itself, or maybe it will be behind it.

The "surprises" of this coaster are becoming more evident as the days goes by ;)

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I hear a train a comin'
Comin' round the bend :P
TR2k3....GET READY!

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Monday, October 21, 2002 8:44 PM
I don't know nearly what you guys do about coasters but does this pic have anything to do with those fins your talkin about or shed any light? http://www.thepointol.com/k1.jpg

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quit complaining about stupid things like spelling and abreviations. It's not worth it.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 8:52 PM
The copper braking fins have nothing to do with this discussion just FYI...
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