Mitch's Wood Coaster Poll Results

Saturday, December 9, 2006 7:09 PM
As I said earlier, The Beast is in the Top 10 in many polls because so many people have ridden it, not because of any actual quality in the ride.


Let's say you have a poll with 10 voters. Each is asked to fill in their Top 10 rides, and you give 10 points for #1, 9 points for #2, and so on. Let's say each person filling out the poll has ridden a completely different set of coasters, OTHER than The Beast, and each puts The Beast somewhere in the lower tier of their Top 10.

The Beast is guaranteed to get at least 10 points, even if each person puts it at #10. Every other coaster in our admittedly deliberate sample set is guaranteed to score at best 10 points, and usually less. That means The Beast will at least tie for #1, even though NONE of the voters said it was the best ride out there, just because it happens that every person in the poll rode it.

Is that right?

Now, I'll admit the above example is contrived, but it shows the hazards of the straight points system -- a consistently not-TOP ride can still wrack up a ton of points just based on sheer numbers.


--Greg
"You seem healthy. So much for voodoo."

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 8:04 PM
Mamoosh's avatar Yeah, that is probably why the Beast in everyone other poll is in the top 10.

What polls would those be?

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 8:38 PM
Leave it up to me to start trouble. Is El Toro a wood coaster? Because thankfully, it sure as hell doesn't ride like one for a ride of its size and speed. Come on, trains with polyurethane wheels? Bucket seats? A structure that doesn't shake? Airtime that requires you to be stapled?:)

In my opinion, if we see more of these pop-up in the states (or elsewhere), I think you could see the same effect that B&M had on your enjoyability of Arrow coasters. Unfortunately, the pricetag will probably keep people away.

One thing that scared me was to see The Villain score about ten points lower than The Boss (some people are all too aware of my hatred for The Boss), and I liked The Villain in its first year. I haven't ridden it since, so if I make it up that way next year, I'll be sitting that one out for sure.

As for The Beast, I got my money's worth at BeastBuzz this year. In almost total darkness, it was scary as hell! I wasn't thinking about any brakes. I was thinking where are we, and please God keep this train on the track!:)

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 8:40 PM
Mamoosh:

here are some links to some polls, sure there are more I missed. I am telling you, the only poll its not ranked in the top 10 is mitchs polls.http://www99.epinions.com/kifm-review-5C89-1DDB424-39CBAE4B-prod1 http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/resources/tv/topten/topten_list.shtml http://www.amusementtoday.com/2006gtawood.html http://www.coasterbuzz.com/choice2004.htm http://www.coasterbuzz.com/choice2005.htm

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 9:47 PM
The epinions poll had Mean Streak of Phantom's Revenge. How is that for creditability?

As long as people vote truthfully, Mitch's poll reigns supreme.

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 10:01 PM
matt.'s avatar Beast Fan has be completely off base for a while but the sudden turn towards sour-grapes-cry-baby-land has certainly made for compelling reading. wow.
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Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:28 AM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Beast Fan said:
here are some links to some polls, sure there are more I missed. I am telling you, the only poll its not ranked in the top 10 is mitchs polls.

1. The epinions poll is one person's written opinion.

2. The Ultimate Coaster list is just taken from the TV show that is several years old - not a poll at all but the opinion of a few industry folks and/or notable enthusiasts. Entertainment, plain and simple, and it's not hard to sell a coaster like Beast on TV.

3. The Amusement Today poll...well, it's the Golden Tickets. The flaws of the points system have been discussed to death already.

4 & 5. The CoasterBuzz Coasters' Choice was...well, let's just say there's a reason Jeff doesn't do it anymore. :)

And just for the record, I'm not a Beast hater. You can go check my ballot for Mitch's poll (mine is #75) - I have The Beast locked in at number 13...mostly based on some really fun rides during BeastBuzz ERT this year. Easily the best rides I've ever gotten on the coaster and in turn this is the highest I've ever placed it on my ballot. :)

Yes, the polls mean dick in the long run, but if you want the best representation of the collective opinions of coaster geeks - Mitch's poll comes closer to defining the undefinable than any other poll could ever hope to.


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Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:43 AM
Any poll that ranks Steel Phantom #4 has to count for something, right?

Beast Fan, another big flaw I see with your method of Top 20 lists is that 100-some coasters would end up not mentioned at all. Of course my ballot would have WG Cyclone at #1. Since I'm sure mine would be the only ballot it appears on, its average would be 20 / 1 = 20, and a guaranteed ranking no worse than tied for first.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:47 AM
Mamoosh's avatar I am telling you, the only poll its not ranked in the top 10 is mitchs

Well that just proves how accurate Mitch's poll is!

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Monday, December 11, 2006 6:13 PM
Until recently watching a POV of Colossus @ Heide Park, I had no idea the ride was so similar to El Toro. I didn't read every post in this thread so it may have been mentioned, but how is this ride?
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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 1:09 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar About 10/3rds as good as ET. ;)

In all seriousness, I haven't been on either, but I understand it's a really really good ride. It's been in the top 10 since it was built, just like all the intamin PnP's.


Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:57 PM
IM just mad that SHIVERING TIMBERS did so bad this year. Oh well what can you do but wait till the next year when ST will be first. Let's go back to the good old day's with this link.

http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2004.htm *** Edited 12/12/2006 9:10:34 PM UTC by Coasterkid85***

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:58 PM
Barry J's Top Ten Observations From the Front Car:

1) It's so refreshing to still see BOULDER DASH rank that high on the list. I haven't been on it in a couple of years but it always was a corker of a ride. Interestingly, with a coaster that was built just a few years before it, SHIVERING TIMBERS, coming in at #13. An enthusiast favorite for many seasons, I feel that TIMBERS was not maintained properly and became a very disappointing ride in what seemed like the space of virtually one year. I'm surprised it made the Top 20 at all. It's probably one step away from joining the "Bucket of Bolts" club and will probably drop like a hot potatoe in the next year's survey. What a shame. An absolute parking lot monstrosity that provided some of the most shameless air EVER on any wooden coaster. I once rescued my riding partner from certain ejection by grabbing hold of his underwear band and bringing him unequivocably back to terra firma (or, at least, to his proper back seat on the coaster).

2) I'm delighted to see the DELLS COASTERS of HADES and AVALANCHE both represented so close to each other. I think that AVALANCHE was one of the surprise hits of 2004 and HADES certainly rocks on as well and was a totally welcome addition to Mount Olympus in 2005. That friggin' leap into the parking lot tunnel is, well, an amazing thing to behold, and to ride.

3) The fact that OZARK WILDCAT and KENTUCKY RUMBLER are sitting right next to each other @ #15 and #16, respectively, is kind of cool. They are both such SIMILAR RIDES for me, though I tend to tilt more heavily in favor of OZARK myself. The third in this class for me is the vastly popular (and, IMHO) over-rated THUNDERHEAD. These make such a completely "perfect" triumvirate, don't they?

4) THE BOSS at #79 should absolutely SWITCH PLACES with the highly over-rated and well-past-its-prime RAMPAGE (#14). To relegate THE BOSS to such a "basement" place in the ratings is a joke. Despite its VERY rough-and-tumble nature, and seemingly endless helix spirals, THE BOSS has perennially remained a favorite of mine since it opened in 1999. A lot of people don't like it, and never did, because it was too "rough" on them. Let's face some bareboned facts here: riding a good woodie requires some work and really, indubitably, a certain amount of S&M. You really have to relate to and possess a certain kind of pain threshold to be able to take that kind of abuse.

5) It's wonderful to see the PHOENIX (#4) still pointing strong and staying high on the charts. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that it's been operating with little or no regard to OSHA or industry safety standards since its relocation to Knoebel's in 1985. Those PTC bench trains and the "fixed position lap bars" are such timeless classics that who would have the heart to do anything to them??? Before the pile-on, know that it ranks right about there on my list as well. I wouldn't change it for the world. . .

6) After careful and long thought-out consideration, I also think that THE RAVEN and THE LEGEND should SWITCH PLACES on the list as well. I am a HUGE FAN of both but, for me, and this is just a personal matter of taste, THE LEGEND @ HW is still the best of those two. Of course, it's mind-boggling to think that they now both happily exist in the same world as THE VOYAGE, clearly the 2006 runaway "Best Seller" and arguably one of the finest wood coasters OF ALL TIME. One of the biggest mitigating factors for me in scotching THE RAVEN ultimately and moving it DOWN THE LIST is the fact that it is such a short coaster. Unbelievable for what it possesses but length goes a long way to adding a more "complete" feel to the ride.

7) The AMERICAN EAGLE at Great America is still a CLASSIC WOODIE and deserves higher voltage on the list. I spent a lot of time on that last summer and just marvelled over how well it is still holding together.

8) THE GRIZZLY (Kings Dominion) at #61; surely someone was high when inputting that one. Any coaster called GRIZZLY (and that includes #179) should immediately and forthwith be jettisoned into outer space and sent spiralling toward the Great Park Junk Outlet in the Sky.

9) Is TREMORS (a coaster that has eluded me for almost 10 years) really STILL that good, to rate #6??? Really? THAT good?? I simply must get to Silverwood some day--a park that you absolutely must want to go to because there's no simply "stopping by" it on the way home from anywhere!!

10) I still lovingly look back at the year LIGHTING RACERS opened @ Hershey (the ACE Summer Con was there that June) and think to myself, "They are just delightful works of art." Sometimes a coaster deserves a higher rating simply because it has an aura or aesthetic about it that is completely unique unto itself. The elegance and grace and "pas de deux" nature of that coaster should still bring it in near the bottom of the Top 20. It could really switch places with the RUMBLER for me and that would be fine. The RUMBLER'S ratings reflect, I think, a kind of first-year "honeymoon" that will see it tumble in years ahead. My experience at that park was nothing short of dreadful--replete with power outages, crazed clowns running amok, and funnel-caked children falling out of flat rides. Shiver me timbers, indeed.

The wrap-up: 2006 was a great year for woodies but, alas, gone forever, are the halcyon days of 1999-2002 when so many coasters were opening annually that you needed a wristband clicker to keep track of them (Editor's Note: this is NOT a suggestion for a new kind of tracking device to be worn by enthusiasts alongside the ubiquitous fanny pack).

Finally, these are all clearly the opinion of one humble coaster rider. Everyone's list and rationale for why a certain coaster goes where on their list is, well, a purely subjective matter.

Merry Ones to all and May Santa be very generous to all enthusiasts with plenty of season passes in your stockings galore. . .

Barry J.

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:56 PM

Barry Williams said:
9) Is TREMORS (a coaster that has eluded me for almost 10 years) really STILL that good, to rate #6??? Really? THAT good??

Yes, it really is that good. Until Voyage, Tremors was consistently my personal #1 wood. It's still #2.


--Greg
"You seem healthy. So much for voodoo."

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:24 PM
rollergator's avatar Yes, TrEmOrS is "that good"...enough to warrant a return trip to Idaho...before Voyage, there was one true "tunneling" wooden coaster, and I don't mean Underground!

....and it's ONLY going to get better from now on. If the search function was up, I'd link to a thread titled "Coastercat is back up in the woodies"...prob. a little more than a year ago now. The *Cat* in question is one Jeff Hammersly, now working up at Silverwood.

Wow, haven't used the "TrEmOrS" thingy in awhile...kinda missed it! :)


You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:23 PM
Is this Jeff a coaster engineer or something? Is he "the man" when it comes to perfecting that coaster?

Interesting.

BJW

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:37 AM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar Jeff is the master woodie carpenter.

I can't wait to get back to Idaho and see how the Silverwoodies are doing.

CAC CAC CAC CAC CAC CAC CAC CAC!!! :)


AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:43 AM
rollergator's avatar Engineers *simply* design them (/winks at AV Matt). Construction crews *simply* build them.

After that, there's maintenance and overhauls - if you need a major overhaul, M-V, and apparently GCII, will be happy to help out. But if you want daily "routine" maintenance that is ANYTHING but routine...then Jeff's one of the very best there is...the stopwatch that clocked Raven and Legend for many years is a pretty unbiased indicator... ;)

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:50 AM
This is off-thread but Acoustic made me think of it, is there going to be Coaster Alley Convergence this year? Isn't Mamoosh connected with this?

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:07 PM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar Yes, Moosh was a co-organizer of the last CAC. :)

AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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