Mitch's Wood Coaster Poll - Results

IMO there is some truth in what SFNEonline is saying because if you took ET and put it in Mavericks spot and put Maverick in ETs spot. ET would be the #1 woodie and Maverick would just be another headbanger in a SF park and wouldnt have gotten best new ride golden ticket it would have went to the real best new ride Mystery Mine.

There is no such thing as the "real" best/new anything. All of these polls are simply enthusiasts voicing their opinions.

BTW, there is no headbanging on Maverick. If anything, it is neckbanging...but I've never experienced any roughness of any sort on Maverick...I always get confused when people say it's rough...it must have something to do with body dimensions and the way (or where) the restraint comes down on a person.

Understanding the lack of credibility with the "this year's ride experiences" poll, it should be noted that Son of Beast" ranked at 130 (not great by any means), 17 spots higher than Texas Giant, which ranked over 100 spots higher on the actual poll.

I did not have as strong of an opinion as you guys about this poll and to be honest I wasnt interested in even voting. However, I have to say that I think El Toro is just as much of a wooden coaster as any out there. More of one than Voyage. People complain about wood coasters being fun but way to rough. SFGADV gives us the answer to this problem (El Toro) and now people complain that it is too rough. This world is full of detractors!
I am not a huge fan of Six Flags, but Elt Toro is as close to being a perfect wood coaster as there is. I believe if those folks up at Cedar Point woke up and built a ride similar to ET they would finally have a complete assortment of coasters.

"To say that El Toro is not a true wooden coaster is ludicrous."

Good thing nobody said that, then. It's certainly a very different breed from other wooden coasters but the poll was conducted with El Toro in the wooden coaster list, so, hence, we're comparing it to other wooden coasters. It's very different - depending on your taste that's either a good thing, or a bad thing, but not inherently one or the other.

"I think if you’re going give El Toro a demerit for having polyurethane wheels you have to give an equal demerit to Voyage for its steel support structure."

No, not really. The thing about this poll is that there are no qualifications for how to rank the coasters. If someone wanted to rank them based on which rides were the prettiest, or orangest, or smelliest, then they certainly could. I think we could all agree that it wouldn't really be in the spirit of the poll itself, but there are as many ways to rank coasters as there are enthusiasts.

"Why hasn’t Voyage received a lot for criticism for having a steel support structure?"

Because you're looking for arbitrary qualifiers that explain people's rankings, and ignoring the ride experience itself. Nobody is saying "Oh El Toro has such and such wheels, I'm ranking it lower" based on that alone. People are (mostly) ranking it lower because of the qualities of the ride experience, which may partially be explained by the wheels. See the difference? If Voyage's steel structure greatly altered Voyage's experience for the worse then it would be an issue. However, I'm guessing to most people it doesn't, so it doesn't matter. Personally I think it may even help the ride experience, traditional or not.

"It’s a shame and a disgrace that people would vote The Voyage #1 this year."

Totally silly, pretty overblown. We're talking subjective taste here, and coming up with conspiracy theories as to why someone's subjective opinion wouldn't agree with yours is, IMO, beside the point. I will agree, however, that there are probably some sandbagging shenanigans going on for some rides but in the end Voyage is #1, and El Toro is *just* behind. With the margin so slim it's really obvious that the voters don't have a strong preference one way or the other.

"El Toro is #1 in my book and if took the rest of the general public and put them on both coasters I’m sure they would agree with me."

It's not a poll of the general public, it's a poll of enthusiasts. Apples and oranges, I'm not sure what the point is. *** Edited 12/8/2007 3:00:54 PM UTC by matt.***

^^^^ WTF!! LMAO
Someone drank way too much coffee this morning!

At issue is not whether or not El Toro is a great ride. I'm sure it is. But the track system is so radically different and the resulting ride experience is so different from a traditional wood coaster (not my opinion, but a common theme among those who have), that ranking it with other wood coasters is complicated. That's all I'm suggesting.

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Jeff said:
"Laminated track" refers to the layering of wood. These new Intamin rides are milled from solid pieces of wood...

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I know what laminated means. I work in the construction industry. My question was about the process of how the milled sections are made. It's not clear in the pics you linked to, but when I was on the ride, the "milled" sections of track definitely appear to be a bunch of sections of wood laminated together. I'm pretty sure they didn't use redwood trees or some old-growth timber to make the track sections from a "single piece of wood".

So, it was my understanding that smaller pieces of wood were glued and laminated together, then "milled" by a machine to be a specific shape and make it possible to assemble together on a remote site. In theory, the same process is done on site with "traditional" wood coasters, just not with machine precision.

^The track is milled out of a block consisting of laminated wooden layers.

^ That does not clear up anything. You have just restated what everyone has said! LOL
If you know something more than the obvious that would help. I could tell a kid that the sky is blue, but a better answer would be to explain why it is blue or what causes is to be that color. You have not stated anything intelligent or helpful.

With that being said, does anyone know anything more about the differences between a prefab woodie and a regular one. Again we have established the fact that the track is made from laminated wood blocks! *** Edited 12/8/2007 5:36:30 PM UTC by manofthechurch***

^No, halltd wanted to know if the pre-fab track is laminated or not. Somebody said it was milled from a solid block, but didn´t adress the question if its laminated. I answered this before, but he might have not seen it.

I have also written many posts about this subject since 2001 after i could witness the construction of Colossos onsite. Maybe do a search before you complain about the lack of intelligence of my post.

Yeah, that's how I thought it was done. So, the only difference between traditional and pre-fab wood coasters is the whole being done by a machine in a factory versus being done by hand on site. The track bed is still made up of laminated wood with steel plates for the wheels to ride on.

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tricktrack said:
^No, halltd wanted to know if the pre-fab track is laminated or not. Somebody said it was milled from a solid block, but didn´t adress the question if its laminated. I answered this before, but he might have not seen it.

I have also written many posts about this subject since 2001 after i could witness the construction of Colossos onsite. Maybe do a search before you complain about the lack of intelligence of my post.

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Didnt mean to sounds like an a$$. Sorry
I thought you were bein mean to those that had a question.

There's a difference between a block of wood that is bonded together in some way and then milled than layers of wood stacked, cut and bolted together. They have a completely different dynamic and age differently.

That's the thing that apparently everyone is willing to admit but wants to debate anyway. The two types of track give radically different rides.

Here... this makes my point better than I could...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooden_roller_coaster#Prefabricated_track *** Edited 12/8/2007 9:52:06 PM UTC by Jeff***

I don't think anyone is debating the difference in ride quality between a traditional woodie and a prefab one. At least I'm not. That's why I like El Toro so much - it's smooth. But, it still has a totally out of control feeling like The Voyage. So, to me at least, I don't think it rides like a steel coaster. Closer maybe, but not the same. The wood still flexes and gives much more than steel. If you don't believe me, check the valleys of the hills right next to the queue in El Toro. That bad boy flexes more than anything I've even seen in steel. Why's it flexing so much? Because it's wood.

What I was debating was the fact that Intamin's method is completely different than a traditional wood coaster and has more in common with a steel coaster. In reality, it doesn't. It's wood, it's laminated, the cross section of the track is basically the same and there are steel plates on which the wheels ride. The big difference is the engineering and factory fabrication.

Does it provide a different ride? Sure. Does it weather differently? I sure hope so - that's the point. Is it still a wooden coaster? Most definitely.

Other than the four moments of extreme airime, El Toro lacks the overall out-of-control feeling that I like about "traditional" wood coasters. The transitions are over-engineered virtually eliminating the laterals. It's still a great ride, but doesn't entertain me the way The Voyage, Avalanche, J2, Shivering Timbers, Boulder Dash and even Thunderhead do. It makes it very tough for me to rank it. I think the people who love it either feel extreme ejector airtime trumps all other experiences, *cough* Gator, OR they don't like being tossed around because it "hurts them". I like being flung all over the place and El Toro simply does not do that. And it's obnoxiously smooth. ;)

Why wasn't there this outcry about prefab track when Heide Park's version debuted?

^It's not in the U.S. Have to wonder if the ECC boards had this kind of debate then...LOL!

^^Matt, if *any* GCII offered the kind of air Toro gives, Thunderhead wouldn't be alone (near the bottom) in my Top Ten. Sure it's not a "traditional" wooden coaster, but I wouldn't care if it was a flat ride (Hexentanz), when you throw me intot he restraints like that, it makes me HAPPY.... :)

^ I second that!

The airtime on El Toro should not be overlooked. It is sensational, and the fact that the ride is so smooth makes it so re-ridable and just plain fun as hell!