Michigan's Adventure chaos crashes, injuring several

I rode Chaos at Hersheypark recently. That's scary to think of that type of incident cause that is one intense ride. My prayers go out to the families and the ones that were injured for a speedy recovery

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God Bless Coasters!
A New Hoosier Theme Park is on the horizion!

Super7 says:
If ONE life is saved, then it is worth the effort. Oh Puhlease...
You can't save lives, everyone dies. How much are you willing to spend to keep people from getting hurt on Chaos. Remember, no one died here. No one even received life threatening injuries.

Can anyone please tell me how any kind of legislation(proposed or not) could have prevented this accident? Before you answer, please remember, that the state of michigan already had certified this ride. Also, the ride had been inspected earlier this morning and found to be safe. What more could have been done? I say nothing more could have been doen. If you disagree, please tell me what could have been done.

So what crashed exactly? I'm still unclear how it crashed or collapsed. The wheel came off the main arm and crashed? From the pictures, it just looks like it stopped in mid-air. Can someone try clearing this up please?

Well poo.
Chaos was like the only "carnival" type ride that wouldn't make me sick. Everything at state fairs and carnivals I just can't take except Chaos machines (and the swings.) But this is pure machine malfunction right?

Guess I'm putting in my vote not to ride one again. I wish there was something to be learned from this besides panic and fear.

It came off the main arm, rolled a little on the ground, and stopped.

My feeling is this: The odds of getting hurt in a plane crash are probably similar if not less than the odds of getting hurt at an amusement park and there are regulations and a federal oversight agency specifically for aviation.

If the gov. is going to spend money on amusement park safety or study the effects of growing lettuce in outter space than I vote for amusement park safety. Now, I am republican (I can hear the boos and hisses now) but with us spending some much money on c**p, this is one program I don't think can really hurt.

I have worked for three amusement park companies. Do I trust them to be honest and protect the public? There have been times when I didn't.

At Geauga Lake one year I worked the go-kart track. A car hit the side rail of the track, breaking it and leaving it jutting into the oncoming traffic. I called maintenance to close down the ride b/c if someone hit it head on it could be dangerous. They told me to put a cone in front of it and keep the ride open. I ran down to the ops director and told him either close the track or I quit and my employees would go with me, not too mention we would call the press. Only then did they shut the ride down.

I think there is room for more oversight & I really don't see it raising prices significantly for the general public.

Ok Point Man,you seem to know it all, please provide a list of EXACTLY what was inspected in these inspections. Obviously something was missed or the ride would not have came apart.

for those worried, FUN is not doing anything out of the ordinary. Last 21.99 down .16 bid 21.82 ask 21.99
It's been up and down just like any other day.

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UCSigep
"Did you make a copy? Because if you made a copy, we could watch the copy."

Super7,
Why can't you tell me? That was the question wasn't it? So, instead of ducking the question by making accusations, answer my question: Can anyone please tell me how any kind of legislation(proposed or not) could have prevented this accident?

How often, should the fed certify rides? How should the feds insure proper inspections are actually done? How many people should be hired to enforce these new regulations? How much money should be spent?

"There goes my FUN stock"? I wonder whether an accident like this will have ANY long (or even short) term impact on their stock value. I mean, people getting killed at Disneyland every few years doesn't seem to affect their stock ...

turnofthecentury, I should point out that every one of the incidents you listed happened in a park that is subject to State ride regulation. The proposed Federal oversight has NOTHING AT ALL to do with either routine inspections, ride certification or licensing, or any other meaningful means for promoting amusement ride safety. It's all about incident investigation and issuance of bulletins, something the manufacturers are currently required to do by both ASTM standards and by State statute in many jurisdictions.

In this particular case, it is highly likely that the incident was caused by an 'unforseen failure.' There is a bulletin out on the Chaos relating to the failure of main hub cap screws, but from the sound of it, it sounds like this time it was the main hub spindle, for which I don't know of any bulletins. If it's a part that hasn't failed before, is difficult or impossible to inspect without tearing the ride down, and is not an expected point of failure, the failure won't be forseen, and no amount of regulation at any level will change that.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Super7,

If the criteria is saving ONE life, why not close the parks altogether?

Even based on Rep. Markey's not-terribly-well-substantiated statistics (http://www.house.gov/markey/safety.pdf, assuming:
.92 fatalities/100 million automobile miles,
.61 fatalities/100 million fixed-site ride miles,
.01 fatalities/100 million scheduled airline miles, and
2,880 feet of track on the average ride), then on my recent Cedar Point trip, the expected fatality rate should be 119.6 for the automobile portion (130 miles for home to Nashville airport, Cleveland airport to Cedar Point, and returns x 0.92), 10 for the air portion (1,000 miles for Nashville to Cleveland and return x 0.01), and 10.9 for coaster riding (20 rides at 2,880 feet/ride, 5,280 feet/mile x 0.61), meaning that I'm 11.9 times MORE LIKELY to die going to/from the park than AT the park.

Therefore, I propose that we should close all amusement parks, because they make people want to travel, and if we save one life, then it's worth the rest of us sitting at home watching the tube and scarfing down cholesterol-laden food.

Um, wait, maybe we should check the death rate per million pizzas before you take my advice! ;-)

The point is, I implicitly accept the risk by my participation in rides at an amusement park (as I do taking the interstate every morning to work, for that matter). The fatality/accident rate is low enough that I consider it an acceptable risk, and while the loss of any life is tragic and heartbreaking, the fear of one life being lost in an industry with a solid safety record is not enough for me to scream for the government to regulate our lives and waste tax dollars even more than they already do.

You people who do not value lives, might feel differently if it was someone YOU knew.

Point Man, I do not know what was inspected. Fact is, that a so-called inspected ride (under MI state standards) fell apart. I am not the one on here claiming that that inspection was adequate, you are.

And while the costs of such regulated inspections are being considered, how much do you think this accident is going to cost the park and the industry in general? An insurance company will cover the lawsuits, but we all know insurance never pays more than you pay them. Parks (and ultimately us through ticket prices) end up paying for the law suit expenses....not to mention losts revenues at a park because the accident happened and people will now choose not to attend that park, etc....Prevention is a wiser way to spend this money. *** This post was edited by super7 on 7/31/2001. ***

I'd believe that the Chaos at MIA was inspected just as much as it had been every other day. Perhaps we're forgetting that this is a machine, and machines do have freak accidents every once in a while. We're talking about hundreds, if not thousands of moving parts, all being stressed in different ways. Obviously the stress somewhere was too much, and that part gave way. I say they figure out exactly what went wrong, make sure that all of the other Chaoses out there don't have the same flaw (and fix the flaw if it exists), and move on. It sounds like all of the other rider-safety systems worked pretty well, seeing that no one got killed.

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If bees make honey, then do earwigs make chutney?

Look at what regulations have caused us in the past. UGLY, useless headrests on our favorite wooden coasters. Has anyone ever really ridden with their head against it like they tell you to? I think I would die. Useless harnesses on the Revolution. Painful seat dividers and lap bars.

If they are gonna "regulate" stuff, let it be to the testing process before a ride opens, and when it runs. Not on ruining good rides.

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Ow! My lap bar IS down all the way.

Federal programs are really run very well, so I think having Federal regulation would benefit each and every one of us. Note the sarcasm. The Feds can do no more than what states are currently doing imo. Sure, some states don't even inspect their rides, and they really need to, but I don't think the Feds butting their noses in is really going to make much difference, other than on my paycheck like Jeff stated earlier. There is absolutely no way to fully prevent accidents from occuring, whether it's walking down the street, driving a car, riding in a train or riding an amusement park ride. That's why they are called "accidents". They will happen. It's unfortunate that they DO happen, and I feel for everyone that has been involved in one at a park, but I don't think the Feds can make much difference.

I smell a rat coming, and Markley is it.

turnofthecentury: At risk of just repeating what Dave said, what Markey and the feds are talking about, requiring more strict reporting, wouldn't have prevented any of these accidents. Advocates of Markey's bill keep bringing up that you aren't required to report this stuff, but give me a break! When it does happen, everyone knows about it.

I also echo Dave's comments about the state programs that are already in place.

If the feds ever decided to extend their regulation to inspections and such, you can bet it wouldn't show any measurable public benefit, because it duplicates what is already in place in EVERY state that has any significant installations. There is certainly no public benefit in that. That's not even considering that parks can't afford to have people get hurt, so it's obviously in their best interest to keep the rides safe.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"

Regulate 'em! Get rid of cars! They break down, and can kill people! Motorcycles are death traps! I had two friends killed on them, and they should be outlawed. No more planes! They crash! In fact, outlaw riding horses, you could fall off. No walking anywhere without proper helmet, knee, and elbow pads. Sidewalks will need to be made out of rubber. Phones are deadly when used as a weapon, get rid of them. Computers can blow up! Electricity causes fires, shut it all off. It's back to the caves, folks!

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UCSigep
"Did you make a copy? Because if you made a copy, we could watch the copy."

Even coaster enthusiats get fooled by Markey's false statistics. CCN guotes .61 as the fatality rate for coasters. Markey used a worse than average year to compute this number. The actual coaster death rate based on a 10 year average is .31 deaths per 100,000,000 passenger miles on coasters not the .61 that Markey uses. The actual scheduled airline death rate based on the same 10 year average is .03 per 100,000,000 passenger miles not the .01 that Markey uses. Marky used a better than average year to compute his airline number.

It is necessary to use an average in computing death rates for both airlines and roller coasters because there are so few fatal incidents for either mode of movement that the annual rate varies wildly from year to year. In 2000 the death rate for roller coasters in the US was .00000000000000 per passenger mile.

However, CCN's point stands that you are much, much more likely to be killed going to and from the park than while you are there.