Markey at it again, giving numbers and no evidence

what i don't get is a lot of the coasters he listed have no g-forces at all....
i guess he wants to stop dangerous coasters like Space Mountain and Star Trek(???) at Disneyland that kill people...

Jeff, you need to make your letter open to all of congress! That effectively shuts down every one of Markey's arguments probably better than some of the current members of congress have knowledge on (I could be wrong, though).

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"This feels like walking into pins and needles. Nice to Know You.
Goodbye."-Incubus

What I dont get on this board is everyone takes IAAPA #'s as perfect, where do they get there #'s from if FL and until last year CA didnt report there accidents at all. Its seems they use all annual vistors per year at 320 million that includes FL and CA but cant account for the injurys in those states. So why doesn't IAAPA do an accident report for the rest of the country (whats that around 200 million my guess only).

I dont think its right to include #'s that they cant account for accidents in those states. I'm not in favor in having any regulation just fair stats for everyone to know whats true, markeys #'s are BS but so are IAAPA's.

I dont trust any group that has any intrest in the subject, do you trust the smoking association to give us true facts or how about the PVC manufactures association or how about the asbestos people(old one) or seatbelts and exploding gas tanks(auto group) and so on. We need an independent group to come in and go over ALL not just some of the accidents and let the chips fall it will end this whole discussion.

Like I said before I'm not for any federal regulations or am I scared of coasters or what they will do to me(I used to jump out of planes for a living more danger there). I just want an end to the whole subject and if all the facts where out there and true we could shut people like Markey up.

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Army Rangers lead the way

Kyle W., it is fairly easy to say she already had brain complications without fully understanding the situation. An aneurysm is a broken blood vessel in the brain which usually causes death or severe, permanent affects. Usually aneurysms take years to develop. Blood vessels, for unknown reasons, just "become" weaker and eventually break. You could have a weak blood vessel in you right now and not know it. Now, the weaker the vessel becomes, the more likely it is to break while "sitting on a park bench." However, excessive forces acting on said vessel (as was the case on Goliath) can cause the vessel to break prematurely. Now, I'm not saying this wouldn't have killed her eventually anyway, but the ride obviously caused it to break before it would have if she had not ridden the ride. Honestly, when rides are capable of doing that, maybe it is time to step back and tone down these rides a tad.

Now, while my position has been stated both in this message and above, I will say that I completely disagree with the way Markey is approaching this. He does use flawed logic and shows a bit of an abnormal obsession with this, but I do believe he is on to something, even though there is no conclusive evidence to say who is clearly right or wrong. This is not a threat, guys. Would you really care if rides were not allowed to get more intense than something like B:DK? That is fine with me. If it really is a very extreme proposal, then it probably won't be passed just like every other year. -Allan

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Magnum Allan - FLCC member.

It's all political. The GP looks at a large twisted coaster and says, "I don't want to go on that. It's unsafe!". Now markey takes that fear and is the peoples "savior". He makes them feel like he will make them safe.

Several thoughts:

1) Definitions for G force effects:
Blacking out = loss of conciousness
Graying out = loss of vision (looks kind of gray without a loss of conciousness.

2) Does anyone know of a documented case of blacking out due to G forces on a coaster? There may have been one, but I've never heard of it.

3) Trying to persuade Markey is useless. He's a politician who has taken a position. It would cause to much embarassment for him to back down. Don't expect any rational resonse from him.

4) I don't think Markey makes any good points since his simplistic view point hides any real issues. The real issues have to to with subtlties of G loading, body position, and human response that aren't easy for a politician to spout or use as slogans.

5) I certainly don't take the IAAPA's injury numbers as accurate. And I know that the CPSC's injury numbers are not accurate. The number for deaths are reasonably accurate. What I do know is that the incidence of death and serous injuries is so low that the nation should be worrying about other things. Garden hoses kill more people.

6) Someone said the old, "You can prove anything with statistics." The fact is you can prove nothing with statistics. Statistics can only establish correlations. For example, statistics tells us that most coaster injuries and fatalities occurr in summer. It doesn't tell us why, though we can certainly make a shrewd guess. Finally, of course is the fact that people attempt to "prove" all sorts of BS with statistics either because they don't understand statistics, or they are hoping that their audience doesn't understand statistics.

7) The table that Markey provides at the link above is not statistics. It is a low quality data set. Statistics and its cousin probability are mathematical treatments applied to a data set.

Magnum Allan: Assuming just for a moment that anything Markey said was true, does that mean the feds should regulate yet one more thing, spending tax dollars that proportionally may not do anything to save a single person? Do you want them telling you what you can and can't do?

If you take IAAPA's number of rides given, which frankly I'm sure is accurate as there isn't any reason to fabricate it, and combine it with Markey's numbers on injuries, hell, double his numbers if you want, and look at the proportions. Is this really something that the feds need to be wasting their time and our tax dollars on? I think not.

You know what the most ironic thing is about some of his arguments? Most G forces, especially on coasters, reduce pressure on the brain, not increase it.

The aneurysm thing is particularly entertaining, as I recall REM's drummer having one rupture in concert, and a kid died at our local rec center playing basketball from a rupture. Should the government restrict playing the drums or basketball? Do you see what I'm getting at here? Regardless of the cause of such injury, the bigger picture here is that we have to draw a line before we're legislated to death.

Now stop making me sound like a Republican. :)

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Regarding the death on Goliath last year:

"It appears to be related to some kind of medical problem," said Los Angeles Sheriff's Deputy Richard Westin. "It is not related to a ride. It wasn't that she was thrown from a roller coaster or struck by something."

http://www.house.gov/markey/iss_parkrides_pr010603.htm

thats all I have to say.

The government is calling for Sky Marshal's to ride aboard airplanes. I say Ride Marshal's...... but seriously. Markey is so full of it, once again the liberals know how to live our lives the best.

Well, you make good points. However, the Goliath incident I spoke of may be just the tip of the iceberg. We still have no studies on the affects of coasters on the brain. I say these must be done! While Markey can't prove anything, neither can we. We have no idea how many people rode a ride and died a week later because of it. I'm not attacking rides, but I'm just saying that it is not entirely fair to say that we KNOW they are safe for the human body.

As for the topic of being legislated to death...well, it is the least of our worries as far as the government goes. Our government is spending billions of dollars and thousands of lives to fight terrorists who were supplied with weapons made in the USA. We have let hundreds of thousands die on the battlefield all in the name of stamping out communism. There is documented evidence of heavy drug trade between the United States government (particularly George Bush Sr.) and Manuel Noriega and several others. Add all that together, and add to that the fact that our country's voters are becoming progressively dumber and brainwashed with political sound bytes, and we have a problem. This is why I am moving to Europe when I turn 21. I am a citizen of a country that no longer exists. -Allan

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Magnum Allan - FLCC member.

Jeff,

Sounds good to me. You should try it more often.

Doesn't Markey realize that his constituants in Massachusetts are more likely to be "injured" in a Catholic Church in his state than in an amusement park in his state!!

Then again for a real thrilling amusement ride in Massachusetts, take a ride with a Kennedy over a bridge!!

lol who knows, well if markey passe slegislation that says you can;t have g forces exceeding 3 thatys pretty sttricts. if I am not mistaken was strong of a air time machine it is there is a section that is about 3 gs or might be more. but I could be wrong.

Oh, not idiot. What I meant to say was , vote this "fine gentleman" out of office. If he is voted out, then there isn't a dang thing he can do to get legislation passed to keep us from having a good time. Most importantly, he won't be able to keep us from enjoying newer rides where the G's are controlled. He doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as the statistics go as proof. That doesn't worry me. What worries me is that he is able to write laws that are so incredibly unneeded. He is just looking to make his name bigger than what it is. I for one am really glad I don't live in his district. It seems he knows whats good for everyone else yet he doesn't know squat. Is whats really good for the goose good for the gander? Hell no!!

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Beer, my soon to be wife, coasters, and the FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Is this a great country or what!!
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stoogemanmoe

I actually feel compelled to email this guy about how messed up his thought processes are. Is there any way that we can email him without having to impersonate a MA resident? I want the guy to know that people who live elsewhere aren't liking this "regulate rollercoasters" idea.

You can E-mail him if you live in Afghanistan. Just don't expect him to pay any attention unless you are making campaign contributions. (Which would be illegal if you are from Afgahnistan)