Markey and IAAPA rep spar on morning television

Oh what a beautiful, beautiful transcript. I really question Sen. Markey's intelligence level after reading this. He doesn't seem to be on par with someone I'd like to see in the Senate, y'know?

Either way, it was beautiful. A perfect example of why he doesn't have his stuff together. Kudos to Bill Powers for being so well prepared to kick the Senator's butt!

JD
http://www.westcoaster.net

bg1.. He never claimed to be an expert. In fact he clearly states that he would have experts in the field determine the limits. He is however in a position to address what he sees as a problem. Do you really think that congresspersons are experts in all matters which they legislate. They consult experts and then make informed decisions.

Also. Why can't there be a discussion of ideas without people resorting to childish name calling (i.e. idiot, twit, stupid)? *** This post was edited by jimster on 6/26/2002. ***

I thought about doing something at CafePress, but their rules prohibit using "names or pictures of third parties without their consent."

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Virtual Midway
http://www.virtualmidway.com

It's too bad coaster enthusiasts can't band together with the IAAPA and parks for a TV spot the next time Markey is up for re-election to point out his attempts at wasting the tax payers money for something as pointless as this.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead

"They consult experts and then make informed decisions"

But I'd like to point something out based on Bill Powers' statements; "And keep in mind that he got his numbers from Claus Peter Speth, a former New Jersey coroner who was indicted in the mid '90s for witness tampering after breaking a bone in a corpse to support his theory."

Yeah... he may consult an expert... but maybe he should consult one that isn't a fraud.

JD
http://www.westcoaster.net

First off, I found that the news reporter seemed very biased to the fact that roller coasters caused some sort of brain damage. I found that the debate was kinda short. It probably could have lasted for days! The thing that bugged me was when Markey talked about the astronauts. Sure some roller coasters have the same G-Forces as a space shuttle launch, but coasters pull them for under a second! A space launch pulls them for minutes at a time! The only coaster that I can think of that has that many G-Forces for a prolonged period of time is Superman at SFMM (7.5 seconds) and those are negative G's! By saying that roller coasters cause brain damage, you are saying that all of the astronaut's brains must be pretty messed up from prolonged periods with (positive and negative) G-Forces! Has Markey considered this do you guys think?

Astronauts are, for the most part, well trained, rigorously tested, physically fit, adults who are aware of the risks associated with their profession. NASA dosen't just check to see how tall they are and wether or not they fit in the seat.

I thought the IAAPA rep did a great job and really knew the facts while Markey was just the normal, blithering idiot that he is.

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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com

Jimster: While I respect that you have your own opinion, I have to take issue with your points.

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1. I like the idea of nation wide standards. I know that my state has inspections/standards, but I would also like to know that the rides are safe when I travel to other states.

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What's the difference? Are you any more familiar with your own state's regulations versus another?

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2. I'm not so sure that there is enough information sharing. Sure, everyone hears about the major accidents, but do you really think that a minor incident at a smaller park gets reported to every park with a similar ride.

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Absolutely. Like I said, if it's mechanical (I assume that's what you mean, as that was Markey's point), the industry gets word around pretty quickly. I don't think people appreciate how relatively small the industry is. Everybody knows everybody, and I don't think that's overstating it at all. It's in their best interest to share information. Furthermore, manufacturers share their information because it's in their best interest. The last thing they want is to be liable for something when they know there was a problem at one park, only to see it repeated elsewhere.

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3. Amusement park operators should definitely not be the ones to determine limits. It should be a body with no financial interest.

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Isn't avoiding law suits and bad publicity financial interest enough? I mean, if a local park kills a few people on one of their rides, don't you think that's going to have serious impact on their bottom line?

The problem I have with Markey's battle cry is that it implies that the industry is irresponsible and state agencies don't know what they're doing. That isn't true in either case.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"We used to hate people, now we just make fun of them. It's more effective that way." - KMFDM, "Dogma"

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People are being hurt, we can do something about it, and it would be irresponsible of us not to do so.

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This argument right here sums up Congressman Markey's argument. He is relying on emotions rather than statistics to make his argument. He wants to make you "feel" that there is a problem and that we as a nation must do something about it.

There are many congressmen that use this approach. There have been presidents that used this approach to politics. Make the nation "feel" a certain way and ignore to hide the cold hard facts. You can note CBS's obvious bias in this interview with graphic pictures of ride accidents made to conjure up emotions and feelings on the topic. They always say that a picture is worth a thousand words and for many polititians, it is their modus operandi.

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Bob Hansen

A proud CoasterBuzz Member

"So you think your'e really brave, gonna see the DEMONS cave.
You silly dude, your'e only food, for the DEMON"

It would also be nice if people would point out the language of his bill before congress and compare that to the statements he makes about what it would do:

WHAT HE SAYS: His Act would give the CPSC jurisdiction over amusement ride safety. The Federal government would then set standards for design, construction, maintenance, operation, and G-force limits.

WHAT HIS BILL SAYS: Fixed site amusement ride shall be included in the definition of "consumer product"; $500,000 will be appropriated to the CPSC to cover the added expense.

(HR 1488)

NOTHING in there says anything about standards setting, or anything of the sort. You have to go back to the CPSC authorization to see what the CPSC is supposed to do. What you should notice is that in general, the CPSC does not get involved unless there is a substantial product hazard...and wherever possible the CPSC is to rely on voluntary standards instead of promulgating its own. So as a result, the standards still come from the ASTM, the inspections are still done by the states, and the only thing that really changes is that the CPSC is empowered to investigate incidents and order recalls. Who knows; maybe it would be better than what California seems to do at the moment...but I'd rather have incidents investigated by ride experts rather than by consumer product generalists.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Jeff,

I am familiar enough with my states regulations to know that the rides I put my kids on are inspected regularly. However, I do not know if this is true in all states.

Aparently law suits and bad publicity are not enough or things like the Mindbender accident and the Old Indiana fiasco would not occur.

My biggest problem with the industry is that there is no industry wide procedure for reporting accidents/injuries. So, you really can't say how safe or unsafe the parks are. I personally was injured twice on rides (at two different parks). Both times I went to first aid. No information was taken either time.

i watched it, and i thought it was kinda dumb, they didnt really even argue for a moment. but it was funny to see ed markeys face.

I'm happy about this. IAAPA seemed to succeed in bringing amusement park dynamics down to a personal level that the public can relate to by comparing it to everyday events. That is key, I think, and it'll be much more effective than explaining exactly what the physical dynamics of ride mechanics are that impose force on the body.

The one thing I'd like to see more of is a direct, focused attack on the statistics regarding brain injuries. The list that's been compiled is horrendous in more ways than I can count. Someone needs to tear that apart, piece by piece.

For his part, Markey played a good politician who's marginally skilled in the art of statistics. For someone who'll look deeply into the issue at hand, his arguments will fall apart quickly. For the soccer mom who caught the debate before driving little Johnny to school, his remarks are potentially damaging.

For example, he states that the rate of injuries at traveling parks is increasing at 1/3 the rate of those at permanent parks. What he leaves out is the foundation of this data that indicates exactly what that rate is, and from what it's based. I'd be interested in knowing if they've compared the number of injuries that take place today versus 10 years ago alone - or, if they've done what they should be doing and prorate that number in accordance with increased attendance that these parks are seeing. But, since Rep. Markey leaves out such information, I can't form a complete opinion.

While I'm ranting, something that's bothered me most has been the reason Markey seems to be spearheading this cause. In countless articles, the incident on Goliath is brought up, and Markey and that family's attorney are made to seem as if they're working together. Is this the case? If it is, why isn't Markey worrying about what his constituents in Massachusetts want? Where's the Californian congressperson?

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~~~ Maddy ~~~
*** This post was edited by Chernabog on 6/26/2002. ***

I find it funny that CBS would be biased towards Markey since their parent company has interest in the amusement park industry. CBS is owned by Viacom which owns Paramount and therefore Paramount Parks.

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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com *** This post was edited by ShiveringTim on 6/26/2002. ***

Thanks for posting that information, Dave. It really illustrates two more points regarding Markey's position.

The first is that the game he talks is not even the game he's pushing for in legislation. That puts a real dent in his sincerety for me, indicating he's most interested in looking like a politician acting in our best interest than creating some kind of meaningful regulation. It has nothing to do with brain injuries, G-forces or reporting.

The second point is that a tiny amount like that isn't going to amount to a hill of beans or save any lives. If that bill was law today or even last year, would it have saved any lives? No. Would it have been one more thing our tax dollars went toward? Yes.

My bigger concern isn't so much that it would be damaging to the industry outright, but that it would set a precedent for further legislation.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"We used to hate people, now we just make fun of them. It's more effective that way." - KMFDM, "Dogma"

lol. he cracks me up. seriouslhow padded football helmets needed to be. what a dumbass haha.

"There should also be age limits for certain rides. Amusement park operators shouldn't be making these decisions."

AHAHAHAHA

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A CoasterForum Member
www.thrillnetwork.com/boards/index.php?referrerid=211

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We regulate baby carriages, bicycles, baby seats. We just don't regulate a kid in a roller coaster seat. Amusement parks need to be federally regulated.

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There is quite a difference between a baby carriage and a roller coaster. One is made of plastic and can fail when a major part breaks. One is made of steel and/or wood and has redundant safety features. When one system fails, there is always a new one to back it up. Care to guess which is which? Perhaps Congressman Markey should load up hundreds of dollars of computerized safety systems into our nation's baby carriages instead of wasting our time.

That's the last thing we need: The feds regulating the industry as a way to share information. We've already seen how well the federal government shares information. One hand never knows what the other is doing, and God forbid that something should happen on a ride, it would probably take several meetings and a couple of months to investigate, before reopening a ride. I think Markey is looking to create a new position for himself as the head of amusement park safety.

To the voters in his state: Please do the right thing. Don't let Markey collect a government paycheck anymore.

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Jim Hansen
Number of coasters ridden: 171

I have encoded the video, but it is still 18MB. If somebody wants the video I can upload it if need be...