Markets respond to possible Six Flags property sales

I've said this before but SFMM isn't the only park they're considering selling,there are five others possibly up for grabs as well with possibly more to come & I wouldn't necessarily say that SFA is entirely safe from the wrecking ball yet either so let's not even go there.

SFOT & SFOG are the only two parks that are off limits to sell or dismantle as they are partnership parks & cannot be touched by corporate management but who knows? maybe SFGRADV may be next on Shapiro's hit list & we'll see the same complaints about it as we do SFMM's possible demise.

Burke was to blame for how he ran the entire chain into debt,first by buying up too many parks too fast as well as by throwing ride after ride into the parks<some more than others> hoping to see what stuck & SFMM became too focused on becoming a park that catered mostly to teens & 20 somethings as a result....SFGRADV is quickly following in it's footsteps with their recent coaster building spree of the last couple years while neglecting the family aspect of what a park should be.

Cedar point on the other hand has succeeded by billing itself as a park that caters to families as well as thrillseekers,they've managed to add a few family & flat rides while continuing to add coasters but more importantly they've paced themselves between additions while SFMM has not,SFMM went coaster crazy all because of CP.They did so at a time when TV was giving them as well as CP national advertising<cough coaster shows on discovery channel cough> but those days are pretty much over.

I wonder if anyone's given any thought to the idea of simply eliminating season passes,or at least placing a minimum age restriction on who can use or purchase them as a means of increasing revenue?Part of the problem that Shapiro is trying to avoid are the season pass toting teens chainwide that use the parks as a babysitting service or hangout & contribute very little in the way of spending while in the park.

It's disheartening to hear that any park is in danger of closing,we saw this with SFAW last season but it is in some cases the nature of the business,just remember that Burke started the ball rolling on this years before Shapiro ever came on the scene but to be honest I see SF possibly closing most of their parks & keeping just the three that they started out with within the next couple of seasons.

I was just mentioning KW because this park was having problems with the teens back in the early 1990s and was able to overcome this. Back then, KW had five coasters although two of them were different from those there now. In those days, five coasters was a respectable number for a major park to have.

One must remember that 20 years ago, the Six Flags parks were not top heavy with coasters as they are now. Parks like SFOG and SFAW were truly family parks at that time. SFOG only had three coasters back in the mid 1980s. I don't remember how many SFAW had then but some of them like Alpine Sleigh Ride and Serpent were clearly aimed at families. It appears that SFOG kept some of its family appeal even as more coasters were added but SFAW became a teen hangout much of the time. Its urban location didn't help.

SFA is going to be an interesting case if it isn't sold off. Its location and coaster count means a lot of teens, many of which have made the park a hangout in the past. It will certainly be worth watching to see of this park can be made more family-friendly.

"I'm not that big a fan of CP but I would still be mad and disguested if CF decided to shut it down for a possible housing track".

Actually, Cedar Fair may very well be making a very similar decision in the next few years (or less) regarding both Star Trek:The Experience and Paramount's Great America. Both have limited growth potential, and sit on grounds that could VERY easlily be bought at a premium by other developers.

How ironic could it be if the only two parks standing in California 10 years from now, are Disney and Knott's.

As for the Coasterbuzz sentiment regarding SFMM's (now likely) closing.WTF cares. Hold on to your own memories, and move on with your life. This is going to get ugly, might as well prepare yourself now. Luckily, there's more to life than SFMM, or any other park for that matter.

But you simply can't control how other people respond to this news.*** This post was edited by DWeaver 6/25/2006 11:55:35 PM ***

I wonder where does Disneyland's attendance fit into the equation, if it does? Remember, this is the second year of their 50th Anniversary celebration, and crowds are pouring into that park because of it.

I don't know. I'd probably keep the property and run it as profitably as possible for the area even if it doesn't fit in with the remaining park strategies. I think they need to remove a few coasters (Suck-clone, Flashsmack, The Vekoma thing, Scream) and fire up the monorail. I'd sure hate to see all those crowds dumped on Knott's. Then again, I never go on the weekends anyway. Anyway, I'd actually miss the Goldrusher even though I haven't been there since Scream opened. How long ago was that?

But like most, it wouldn't affect me too much either way. I'll still go to Knott's.

"But like most, it wouldn't affect me too much either way. I'll still go to Knott's."

Which is PRECISELY why Snyder & Shapiro (LOL, "the *other* S&S") have decided to simply BAIL on the park. There's nothing they can do to recover the *demographic* that they so desperately need in order to make parks profitable... not in SoCal. Elsewhere? Remains to be seen....

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This is the only horrible site on the net that people are actually happy a park is being possibly destoryed. It's only because it's SFMM which shows you how sad the memebers of this site really are.

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Try making an argument first before you decide to kick everyone here in the nuts. No one here said they'd be happy about anything. Get a grip.

News flash to those that don't get it... amusement parks are still businesses. All of the happy touchy feely smiles in the world won't change that. If someone here happens to agree with Shapiro, maybe, just maybe, it's because they agree with the angle he has about the business.

That's probably why someone above brought up CP. I mean, what possible motive could anyone have to form an opinion about a business other than ridiculous fanboyism?

"SFMM is the Kathleen Turner of the amusement industry: At one time she was considered hot and a popular actress but now she's old and her career in shreds thanks to mismanagement and choosing horible roles".

Not to mention bouts with acoholism and addiction to meds. But maybe that's going too deep. ;)

To me SFMM is like those wild parksyou create in RCT, where you fill up every possible spot with every type rollercoaster you can think of. Only to then have to increase your staff threefold to clean up all the throw up and fix all the broken benches, garbage cans and vandals. Meanwhile, your building your latest rollercoaster and all hell breaks loose in the rest of your park.

Eventually your park is so full it takes all your available cash to keep it running, so... you start a new park. ;)

I remember when Six Flags was very family oriented back in the early 1980s. I lived in Atlanta at the time and went to SFOG. It was really nice. The park had a good variety of family attractions and only three coasters but I still had a good time. The only gripe I had about the park was the usual one about the food prices.

In some ways, the SFOG of the early 1980s was similar in its attractions to the LC of today except for the lack of a waterpark. Waterparks had not really become popular yet. One thing I was always impressed with was the beauty of the park. The carousel had a wonderful setting in the woods away from the bustle of the other areas in the park. As for the coasters, TGASM and Mindbender provided plenty of thrills. The other coaster was a family-friendly mine train ride. There were several transport rides (a good idea for family oriented parks). Two water rides, a darkride on water (Monster Plantation) and some family friendly flats added to the atmosphere.

Despite possibly losing all those coasters, I think that selling SFMM might be a smart move on the part of Six Flags. SFMM has 17 coasters, and no matter how hard they try to promote an image as a family park, a park with 17 coasters is still going to attract teenagers. Six Flags may just decide its easier just to sell the park, then spend the money trying to convert it into a park that will attract families. Many of SFMM's recent additions (Tatsu, X) are not exactly rides that will attract families.

I think one of the biggest mistakes the old SF management did was continuing to pump rollercoasters into SFMM. For instance, Magic Mountain getting 3 coasters a year after getting Goliath I think, was unecessary.

I agree, Avaro. From what I know of SFMM is that it doesn't have that much room for expansion. 17 coasters is more than enough for one park and if Shapiro really wants to make the parks family friendly where teenagers don't gather.

1. Do like Lake Winnie did a few years ago, ban teenagers who aren't supervised.

2. Lower the parking fees since $15 is way too much for a family

3. The ticket price of $50 per person is a little too steep even with the $15 discount that is being offered now. Understand that a majority of people don't live within 60 miles of some of the parks. For a family of 4 will have to spend around $200 without tax for one day's worth of rides plus you have to take in account the gouging of the food prices inside the parks. Lower the price to around $40 and offer multi-day tickets for those who don't have season passes. The vast majority of those who do have season passes live within a certain mileage of these parks. Also you have to take in account for the high cost of gas compared to what it was in the 90's and even the 80's.

If Shapiro did this then he would see greater revenue than in the past since it would encourage people to spend more inside the park itself instead of leaving the park to eat somewhere else.

Come on now SFMM is the on the best parks ever made and tons and tons of history. WHY??? Would you let it go to waist like that if it was torn down. Including they just had made Tatsu and now there going to sell the park. The ride hasnt even been up for like a half a year. Think about it a WAIST!!! It has set many records and has made a ton of history. Like Revolution the FIRST ever looping rollercoaster, Viper the tallest looping coaster ever and X the first 4 demenshional ride!!! Its all mest up if they ever got rid of SFMM. I have grown up with SFMM and have ridin everythin single ride there and there awsome. SFMM has added 5 new rollercoasters in the last 6 years and including they have the record for the most rollercoasters in a theme park! They have made many changes and there all really good but I know that SFMM still needs alot of work. Like getting rid of buildings they dont use any more or just a couple of layers of new paint. I think that thye need to stop adding and start making SFMM up to date and everything would be great agian. BUT the park needs alot of work and if they want to put money into it then it willl come out all good if not they willl just let it go to waist and rot in the ground which would heartbreak alot of people!

My waist has lost four inches in the last year!

"Wow is all I can say. I cannot believe that a group of enthusiasts such as the ones here on coasterbuzz are actually saying that they will not miss MM and people are actually favoring tearing it down. Wow. I'm so speechless and angry I could bite nails. Are the members on this site so CP blind that we will be "happy" to see the great ride selection that MM offers just go to scrap? Goliath, Riddlers Revenge, Tatsu, X, Revolution! Do these rides meaning nothing to you as an enthusiast?"

Yeah, we already went through this with Astroworld and about 2/3rds of the people on here had this attitude. So, no need to be surprised about it.

Actually, the first looping rollercoaster was called the Loop-De-Loop in France back in the late 1800's. The Revolution is the first modern looping coaster in 1976 followed by the Mind Bender in 1978 which was the first one with 3 loops.

Let me say this as a loyal customer of sfmm I willnot visit anymore. I am just about 21 yrs old. A responsible person, who has spent loads of money visiting there, not only at the park but staying at nearby hotels and shopping and eating in the santa clarita valley. Now, this new crackpot comes in and outlaws pretty much all of his loyal customers who are the teens-early thirties crowd who are going to a park not for frills but only thrills. If I want family friendly I hit disneyland. I take my two yr old there all the time, and I don't buy the whole world there either, they still make money. Let me tell you six flags was created for a crowd of people who don't wear diapers. If your kids in them, don't bring em, and if you can't handle it stay away. They just needed better security and maybe a little more easily accessible shopping and such. I mean I have to lug my butt up that huugggee hill just to get a soda! Yah it gets tiring but I still did it. But then I hear that they outlawed smoking completely!!What the heck? That is my right, I always huddle into a corner anyways but comon even Knotts and Disneyland allow smoking. Knotts pretty much allows it everywhere except camp snoopy and that is understandable and the lines again very reasonable. But I even would be cool with a disneyland style "smoking area" they have several areas located throughout the park for smokers away from the crowds. This is fine, but I am not going to be a happy little camper without a cig. all day. So Shapiro can go take hsi lousy crap somewhere else. Im not into this stuff. As for the park itself, it is fine, yes it could be more visually asthetic I agree but as long as the rides are good I'm there, no matter how "'pretty" it is. And as for those who praise Knotts, they have some of the worst coasters I've rode. A huge waste of money.At least I got to get on some really original coasters, at SFMM but not with this loser in charge. He won't see my dime. And Im sure most of the people my age would agree.

Let me say this as a loyal customer of sfmm I willnot visit anymore. I am just about 21 yrs old. A responsible person, who has spent loads of money visiting there, not only at the park but staying at nearby hotels and shopping and eating in the santa clarita valley. Now, this new crackpot comes in and outlaws pretty much all of his loyal customers who are the teens-early thirties crowd who are going to a park not for frills but only thrills. If I want family friendly I hit disneyland. I take my two yr old there all the time, and I don't buy the whole world there either, they still make money. Let me tell you six flags was created for a crowd of people who don't wear diapers. If your kids in them, don't bring em, and if you can't handle it stay away. They just needed better security and maybe a little more easily accessible shopping and such. I mean I have to lug my butt up that huugggee hill just to get a soda! Yah it gets tiring but I still did it. But then I hear that they outlawed smoking completely!!What the heck? That is my right, I always huddle into a corner anyways but comon even Knotts and Disneyland allow smoking. Knotts pretty much allows it everywhere except camp snoopy and that is understandable and the lines again very reasonable. But I even would be cool with a disneyland style "smoking area" they have several areas located throughout the park for smokers away from the crowds. This is fine, but I am not going to be a happy little camper without a cig. all day. So Shapiro can go take hsi lousy crap somewhere else. Im not into this stuff. As for the park itself, it is fine, yes it could be more visually asthetic I agree but as long as the rides are good I'm there, no matter how "'pretty" it is. And as for those who praise Knotts, they have some of the worst coasters I've rode. A huge waste of money.At least I got to get on some really original coasters, at SFMM but not with this loser in charge. He won't see my dime. And Im sure most of the people my age would agree.

Let me say this as a loyal customer of sfmm I willnot visit anymore. I am just about 21 yrs old. A responsible person, who has spent loads of money visiting there, not only at the park but staying at nearby hotels and shopping and eating in the santa clarita valley. Now, this new crackpot comes in and outlaws pretty much all of his loyal customers who are the teens-early thirties crowd who are going to a park not for frills but only thrills. If I want family friendly I hit disneyland. I take my two yr old there all the time, and I don't buy the whole world there either, they still make money. Let me tell you six flags was created for a crowd of people who don't wear diapers. If your kids in them, don't bring em, and if you can't handle it stay away. They just needed better security and maybe a little more easily accessible shopping and such. I mean I have to lug my butt up that huugggee hill just to get a soda! Yah it gets tiring but I still did it. But then I hear that they outlawed smoking completely!!What the heck? That is my right, I always huddle into a corner anyways but comon even Knotts and Disneyland allow smoking. Knotts pretty much allows it everywhere except camp snoopy and that is understandable and the lines again very reasonable. But I even would be cool with a disneyland style "smoking area" they have several areas located throughout the park for smokers away from the crowds. This is fine, but I am not going to be a happy little camper without a cig. all day. So Shapiro can go take hsi lousy crap somewhere else. Im not into this stuff. As for the park itself, it is fine, yes it could be more visually asthetic I agree but as long as the rides are good I'm there, no matter how "'pretty" it is. And as for those who praise Knotts, they have some of the worst coasters I've rode. A huge waste of money.At least I got to get on some really original coasters, at SFMM but not with this loser in charge. He won't see my dime. And Im sure most of the people my age would agree.