Markets respond to possible Six Flags property sales

Doesn't get any better than that. :)

You know me...swoop in, make off-topic & off-color remark, leave 'em laughing. My job is done here ;)

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The point I am trying to make was that they WERE making money. Obviouslly not as much as if those same million teens were now entire families, but the fact of the matter is (with Geauga Lake anyways) was that those 3 million visitors at one time [which were mostly teens] have dwindled down to dismal numbers of "family folk" which didn't make up for all those teens and their season passes.

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What's so obvious about that? If the no-spenders discourage the spending families to visit, then the net difference could be less. That, and what does it cost per visit for a person? If they go ten times in a summer and the cost is more than $5 per visit for the teen, then they would actually take a loss.

I don't know any real data either, but I suspect Shapiro is on the right track. He does have the data.

Wow is all I can say. I cannot believe that a group of enthusiasts such as the ones here on coasterbuzz are actually saying that they will not miss MM and people are actually favoring tearing it down. Wow. I'm so speechless and angry I could bite nails. Are the members on this site so CP blind that we will be "happy" to see the great ride selection that MM offers just go to scrap? Goliath, Riddlers Revenge, Tatsu, X, Revolution! Do these rides meaning nothing to you as an enthusiast?

I'm going on the record and stating that these rides have provided more thrills and enjoyment per visit than most other parks I have been to.. even the ones in the midwest. Drop the ignorance of my park is better than your park bullcrap, were talking about the closure of a historical park and the possible scrapping of an awesome coaster collection in favor of $$ for possibly a f'in shopping mall or industrial park. The whole thought disgusts me.

As for attendance and stating teens are not making the parks money, honestly it's the chains fault. Bad pricing structure has led to the impending demise of the company. Why would someone go to a park and pay $49 for each day or instead pick up the $89+ season pass and come back as much as they want. Paramount parks (err Cedar Fair parks) are just as guilty of this. Add to this the $9 rice patty "hamburger" and $8 soda at these places, the 10-15 dollar parking and you can see the recipe for failure. Middle america simpy can't afford it. The rising price of gas as well as everything else is starting to eat at the blue collar worker to the point that going to the park for a day with the family is a $200-300 venture and that's just to get into the park let alone feed everyone.

It will be interesting to see if Cedar Fair can maintain their recent acquisitions as well. How would you guys feel if CF decided PKI wasnt bringing in enough cash and that the land and timber would be more profitable. Im sure there would be members on here up in arms.
*** This post was edited by CoasterBearVa 6/25/2006 4:09:39 AM ***

Are the members on this site so CP blind that we will be "happy" to see the great ride selection that MM offers just go to scrap?

What in the world does any of this have to do with CP?

Even Shapiro admits SFMM has been mismanaged for years, pissing off millions of customers who will never return. Will I miss the park? No. Will I miss the coasters? Other than X, Riddler and Tatsu no, there's not one in the bunch I'd miss. Does that have anything to do with how I feel about CP? Not in the slightest.

The only thing more shocking that this weeks news is how some enthusiasts see coasters and amusement parks! lol

Here is how Shaprio can control the number of teenagers from gathering at Six Flags, have a ban on them like Lake Winnie did a few years ago when they had the near riot situation. Also if prices continue to rise which they will in the next few years, how is that going to get families into the parks when they have to re-think of how bad they want to ride just a few rides. Families will have re-think about going to the big parks if prices continue to rise.

I understand that more than a few of you, $50 plus $15 for parking is a drop in the bucket to what you make. Understand that some of us have to live within a tght budget where $50 plus parking and the food in the parks are a an expense some of us have to do without. I would love to go down to Six flags Over Georgia since that park and I share the same birthday but I can't afford the $35 plus $15 for parking which they will get back in spades by all the other rides they want to you pay for inside the park. Heck, I can afford to drive down to Atlanta which is 120 miles away every weekend to make full use of a season pass if I was to get one. I can see a time in the near future where Six Flags and other parks will raise the price up to $100 and how many of you can afford that for a one day pass. How many of you can afford and will go to an amusement park if the price gets that high?

I've never been to Magic Mountain and I have no intention of going there in the short-run... but I find it extremely shocking that they'd actually consider shutting down such a high-profile amusement park such as Magic Mountain. It's had a long history in the movies, a great selection of rides, and has a notable reputation... BOTH good & bad.

I feel that in the long run, if they were able to sell the park to another owner/investor... of whom could put a little TLC into the park, they could turn it around in a few years and bring back the charm it once had (did it ever have one?). The short-term answer is that they could make some big-bucks from the valuable land itself, but the long-term answer could be turning it around into a very profitable park that can again compete successfully along with Disney & Knotts.

If someone purchases the park... in less than 10yrs, I'm sure they could easily turn around a profit on the park with small yearly additions that will cater towards the family more & more while retaining the extreme thrill rides. I don't know how the park is laid out, but I'm sure they can easily fit a new kids section, a number of flats, and some landscaping to help beautify the park... add that along with in-park security (a-la Cedar Fair), and you've got a safe & more family-friendly park that anyone can enjoy from 1 to 100yrs old.

But again, that would require someone who has the capital to out-bid a developer who'd want to turn that into real-estate.

I keep mentioning KW because they managed to solve the teen problem without running them out of the park or making them feel unwelcome. Meanwhile KW remains affordable to most families. Full admission is $28.95 but many visitors come as part of groups, schools, and special events and pay less than $20. KW also has several special days whcn admission is only $12.95. In addition, food is reasonably priced, picnic coolers are welcome, and free parking is available. There are only two upcharge rides in the park, a Skycoaster and paddle boats.

I am just gonna throw this up and see who likes the idea. What if they took the rides they take down to sell the land and move them to a super park in an area with cheap land and cheap labor. I know people will say they do not have the money but if they take on partners like a major hotel chain builds onsite hotels and the hotel chain puts up the money for the hotels and a food chain builds and staffs the food sales,They could get a local/state government to give them the land plus tax breaks for years and get a large company to put up the money for naming rights(sort of like baseball stadiums ) They are triing to charge like a destination park (ie disney or universal)why couldn't they try to make one .

Kevin

P.S.What would you spend to go to a well run park with 40 or so coasters.*** This post was edited by kevin38 6/25/2006 10:37:08 AM ***

Totally 100% agree with CoasterbearVa. This is the only horrible site on the net that people are actually happy a park is being possibly destoryed. It's only because it's SFMM which shows you how sad the memebers of this site really are.

Regardless if you didn't like the park, it's a slap in the face to the one or two other CB memebers who did actully like the park, for you douche bags to sit here and boast about how happy you are and can't wait until SFMM is gone.

I'm not that big a fan of CP but I would still be mad and disguested if CF decided to shut it down for a possible housing track. I have enough respect to know that the people who grow up with CP might be hurtting and not sit and rub it in there faces how happy I am about their home park being crap and I'm glad it's being shut down. Some of the people on this site really disguest me. I cannot wait until one of your stupid beloved parks met it's day with a wrecking ball so I can spit in your faces like you doing the SFMM fans.

The only reason I would want Magic Mountain to get torn down is if one or some of the coasters would come over here to SFoG.

SFMM was having issues with gangs and teens since I was the fourth grade, back in 1983. Now it is surrounded by homes. Cedar Fair ought to by the place, close the park, dismantle and relocate the rides, and subdivide the land. They'd make more money selling the land, and putting the coasters at other parks.

Hey......

Remember earlier in the year, Six Flags America was considered to be sitting on some of the more "valuable" land in the chain and possibly was in danger of the land being sold?

Has the park performed better so far, or is this just one of a handful of other shocking news bits to come?

It would be a shame for a park like SFMM to go to waste. The place is almost legendary or something. It has a wonderful location and a great assortment of coasters and water rides.

SFMM seems to have gone wrong in the following main areas, though:

• lack of flat rides and family flat rides
• lack of maintenance and upkeep of certain rides, buildings, and areas
• lack of good park operations

To turn SFMM around in these 3 key areas would take some time and money, perhaps more than the current management would like to spend. The last management team(s) are to blame for getting SFMM into this situation, and it's unfortunate that it's come to this.

For SFMM to have a lower annual attendance than even KBF is not good. This is one of Six Flags' megaparks, and to have it doing so poorly is unfortunate. When I was there, I didn't notice many families hanging out and doing things, and this is a bad sign. Shapiro wants the families to come, and SFMM isn't attracting enough.

If they were to keep this place, I would suggest corecting the 3 problems mentioned above, plus open up SFHH to SFMM guests--combine the parks like they are in plenty other amusement parks. This will enable them to offer something that Disney, Knotts, and Universal do not offer currently--amusement and water park together in the same park. This could also maybe help with marketing to families.

It makes me very angry to even hear that SF is even considering selling MM. Shapiro says it's because it "doesn't fit" with the new family idea. Well if it doesn't right now, put some TLC into this place and change things. I know it's easier said than done, but I don't really believe all of this "doesn't fit" mumbo jumdo. When it come down to it, it's a $$$ thing and that's all. I mean, has he been to any of his other parks, SFOG ring any bells? This park is horrible, dirty, not very well themed, cramped, and it is run rapid with almost nothing but TEENS and people who look like they are in gangs. You can't just blame one park because of the "teens". MM is a great park in a great location and I always have a blast when I go and I don't even live on the west coast. I live alot closer to SFOG, SFKK, and other SF parks and I'd much rather go to SFMM any day. Look, SF as a whole, dosen't really have the best theme parks compared to how CF, Busch, etc...run theirs. And to blame the "doesn't fit" on MM, so let's get rid of it thing is total crap. If that is the case SF would have to get rid of pretty much all of their parks in my opinion.

If Magic Mountain Closes completely: We will see a repeat of Astroworld where a handful of rides would survive, but others would be melted away.

Too bad the place doesn't make much money, it's all in the marketing.
I would pull a few rides out of their, If I were to buy it. Too many high-maintainace attractions.

Magic Mountain looks like a beautiful park even if it is run poorly. I'd rather someone else buy it and fix it up than have it torn down. Tatsu is the only flying coaster I know of that actually looks worth riding and now they're already talking about tearing it down!

SFMM is the Kathleen Turner of the amusement industry: At one time she was considered hot and a popular actress but now she's old and her career in shreds thanks to mismanagement and choosing horible roles. She probably could be hot again with a huge cosmetic makeover and maybe find a few good roles in an effort to revive her career...but would anyone really care? ;)

*** This post was edited by Mamoosh 6/25/2006 7:05:08 PM ***

First of all, CoasterBearVA please don't bite nails–that probably hurts really bad:)

It's all in the marketing? Magic Mountain is in People Magazine all the time and it was just on Inside Edition recently as well for Tatsu. Unfortunately, some of the people commenting haven't been back to a Six Flags under Mark Shapiro. Things have gotten noticeably better.

As for the heavily-leaning towards Cedar Point comment, I think that might have been true years ago, back in the days of Pointbuzz. However, nowadays, I think this is site is extremely diverse from a geographical sense. There are people on here from all over the country, as well as, in Europe and other countries.

Arthur, the Kennywood comparison is bad. You can't compare an extremely small park with five adult coasters in a remote location of Pittsburg with Magic Mountain.

Whomever suggested the well-run park with 40 coasters, let me know when you get that one off the ground, because I'm not getting any younger if you know what I mean.

^^ Kathleen Turner ALSO peaked as a cartoon rabbit....coincidence? ;)