Man dies after falling off Superman at Six Flags New England

Guys and Gals let's try to remember one thing.....everything is still speculative at this point and a person is dead.

My thoughts and prayers to those involved in this tragic event.

Some more information-http://wbz4.com/massachusetts/MA--AmusementParkDeat-gn/resources_news_html

What does SFNE's handicapped riders policy state? Was he able to ride per park regulations or were the ride operators not aware of his actual condition? not throwing out blame, but I don't think this was mentioned

cp2k, in the article in the above link it says:

Park officials also said Sunday that workers are not allowed to help patrons get on rides and that Mordarsky was able to get into the roller coaster by himself, according to broadcast reports. The park must allow disabled people on rides if they can get in them by themselves, under the federal Americans With Disabilities Act, park officials said.

*** This post was edited by CalvinJ23 5/2/2004 9:05:10 PM ***

drjcoaster: I guess I'm not ignorant since I never once SAID you hated anyone.

Don't come at me with that argument. Your first "anonymous" post was all but adult if you really want to play that game. You seem to blame society more than the park. I don't disagree that overweight or disabled people should sometimes not be allowed to ride. HOWEVER, the PARK has to make those restrictions. If the ride ops willingly let someone ride that should not, it is not at all the victims responsibility.

Your defense for why it ISN'T the rode ops fault is because Six Flags would be sued for discrimination. Please. MAYBE they would tell him he couldn't ride, give him a refund and he would continue living. That's the worst that could happen.

I assume since you are "moderately sized" all of your solutions are easy. Maybe they SHOULD have a "size gate" to determine whether or not a person is too big to ride. That is the responsibility of the PARK though. Don't blame overweight people for ruining the park experience for everyone else. That's basically what you said:

"Those people too pop out of a ride now and then and of course, we all pay the price because we eat moderately and watch our weight."

With that mind-set you might as well let blind people be ride ops. That's because according to you, it's the fault of the obese person for being obese and not the ride operator for letting them on the ride.

According to Calvin J23's last post, you are right, the park HAD to let the man on. Don't blame him though. Unless he was behaving in a manner that is not appropriate for riding a rollercoaster, he was not at fault.*** This post was edited by rentzy17 5/2/2004 9:04:31 PM ***

It looks like Markey has gotten involved. As usual, he is ignorant of how things in the industry work. When he talks about how parks in 5 other states not even hearing about incidents, he completely discredits the safety practices of parks and park chains. I know through experience that when something happens on a ride, Six Flags will have all rides of that type shut down within a very short time of the incident, exercising outstanding communication through the park chain. This was shown through the testimonies of people at SFA who reported that their S : ROS was closed. I can only assume that simlar practices are followed by other park chains. However, the news reports and people like Markey don't try to find this out, and instead spin tales of disorganization and unsafe rides. Since this is the only 'information' that is given to the public, they believe it. The only thing that is worse than ignorance is forced ignorance.

We may find that there was a mechanical failure, and for that the maufacturer or SFNE may be found at fault. However, I know that parks handle these kinds of situations with the utmost professionalism, including shutting down similar rides at other parks. Federal control is not the answer, and Markey should not be using this sad, unfortunate incident to promote his own agenda.

Another question...in how many of these recent deaths has the rider been alone, without proper supervision? I imagine if a disabled rider had someone responsible accompanying them, then the chances of said persons working their way out of restraints would decrease...dont'cha think?

Also...a responsible person with them would conceivably help make the smart decision for/with said disabled person about whether or not they should even ride in the first place.

-Edited at 9:07 pm by me-*** This post was edited by BigJim4Life 5/2/2004 9:09:12 PM ***

Markey's motives are unclear to me. It seems as though there are more important issue to address in his position rather than amusement park safety.

I feel something may have happened in Markey's childhood that made him develope this animosity toward theme parks and thrill rides.

i don't think that 225 lbs is overweight at all...at least that is what the man's mother said he weighed. i myself am 6'5 285. I have no problem fitting in MF or XL200. i was too tall for Delirium at PKI. Just small enough for Flight of Fear, although 5 more lbs and i may not be. I think riders should be aware of what they should be able to ride. I was, however, unable to fit on Wicked Twister. (Lucky for me I got a ride in '02. ) I am glad he was able to get in S:RoS by his own power. I am saddened by what happened. Maybe if he had a friend or family member riding next to him (i don't think the press release stated if that was the case), then maybe it could have been avoided. Heck, for all we know, he might have panicked and tried to free himself, not fully aware of what was going on...again it's all speculation. I just hope no more incidents like this happen ever again, but unfortunately, we all know that accidents can, and will, happen

What exactly were the causes of the other Intamin ride ejections?

I know that on PP the woman was too heavy for the restraint, but what was discovered in the investigation about the other S:RoS incident and has there been any new informaiton on the cause of the Hydro accident? Does Hydro have the newer curved restraints? Your answers to my questions are greatly appreciated.

I really hope that there isn't a fundamental design flaw with Intamin's restraints. But with all of the modifications to their rides like extra supports and now these recent fatalities I'm starting to think Intamin's engineers are not doing there jobs correctly, but I could be completely wrong. I'll jsut have to wait until the investigation is complete.

Rentzy:You keep missing the point. The park, by law, was not even allowed to ask the man about a disability, let alone tell him he could not ride. The park has zero control on this issue. I assume most reasonable minds may find that this is a problem. Dave has hit a nerve that many of us agree with. It has flat out of control. I too could write a book about how many times I've had to wait 20 more minutes for rides after watching fat person after fat person slowing the process.Whether this particular incident ends up being caused by rider misbehavior does not change the fact that there is a problem with ADA and how it affects the rides and parks we love.
*** This post was edited by Jeffrey R Smith 5/2/2004 9:33:53 PM ***

Sorry, forgive the ranting of an obese and disabled person.

The public should be held responsible for their actions, and therefore the "parks" cannot be held responsible. The obese sometimes are misled by the size of the seats and restraints, just to find after waiting in line for awhile that they do not fit {and after making the average person wait}. And for the disabled person, I'm also disabled to a point, certain disablites will keep a person from riding certain rides. And "I" think {not trying to influence anyone} that the ride ops should be able to ask about certain disablities. If a person looks safe to ride but is not and the park is held responsible for their death or injury then how could they have stopped the accident if the ride op did not know? Some disabled people look and act normal to the average person, but inside they can not think correctly enough to be able to ride a ride safely enough. If they don't come through the handicapped entrance, the ride op will never know if they don't show any signs of their disablity.

As for the poor man that died and his family, I feel very saddened for them. But according to the report by the mother he should'nt of been able to ride in the first place.

People need to stand up and be responsible for themselves. We can not rely on others to "help" us on our way through life. GET A LIFE.

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Now that the Ang part of AngnJc has finished her rant, the J.C part will start his.

As a current ride op, I am offended by the obvious people that SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO RIDE but I can't stop them. Today we had an OBVIOUSLY pregnant woman ride Highland Fling(enterprise) 3 times, but could not say anything. This is wrong, and if she lost that baby she would sue the park for allowing her to ride.

As for the "inconvienience" that the "normal" people suffer because the "fat lady" wants to ride, GET A LIFE. 5 minutes out of your day at an amusement park is nothing. And besides since .01 percent of the people fall into this catagory (your numbers, not mine) this should not happen very often and should not cause you any real harm. If the person KNOWS for a fact they won't fit then you have a beef.

Lets have test seats at all major rides, and maybe this will be a moot point. As for needing assistance closing the restraints, big deal. As long as they close, and are not defective, they should function normally, so let " the corn dogs pop" !!!

On a slightly different subject, do you think it was a coincidence that by 11 A.M. today every ride op at SFStL had to sign a form stating that we had been properly trained and understood how to close and fasten restraints? I don't ;)

This is another very sad story. It might have just been me, but when I first heard of the story I did think that about the exact condition of the person, before hearing all the facts. I have all respect in the world for people with disabilities, but at some point there has to be a limit on what they can do for their own safety. It might not be the nicest thing in the world, but sometimes it isn't about being nice, it's about being safe. I can not speculate any further, but I will be interested to see what the report finds about how the restraint opperated. It's not going to change how I feel about roller coasters being safe, but since Intamin has had some problems, it needs to be looked at.

My condolences go out to the family, and by no means intened to offened anyone with these comments. Just expressing my opinion in the hopes that something like this doesn't happen again.

I was a ride op last year at a small theme park with a roller coaster of our own. We had our own limits...yes people with disabilities were allowed to ride, but only if (if i remember right) they had a guest accompanying them. If not, then we had to get an employee (one of us usually, if we had enough ride ops) to get in and ride with them. Pregnant women...not allowed...and we've had to tell a few. With at least two signs in the queue line, and one at both the entrance and exit of the ride (for guests with disabilities), people should be able to read ride rules. Yet some people (not saying those with disabilities are) seem to be ignorant of these rules, then get mad when they can't ride. Sorry about the rant...just relating my ride op experience.

angnjc: Can a park actually FORBID a pregnant lady from riding? They always have those signs up saying that you SHOULDN'T ride if you are pregnant. Would it be discriminatory if they had signs saying pregnant people absolutely CANNOT ride?

Jefferey R. Smith: I really don't understand all of the laws so I didn't realize that the park by LAW could not ask the man about his disability. Like angnjc said though, do you really have to wait an extra 20 minutes because of "fat" people? You make it sound like an epidemic or something. I bet it inconveniences people for a short period of time but 20 minutes? I think the test seat is a great idea like angnjc said. I'm a big guy and if I have any doubt that I won't fit in a ride I try the test seat, provided there is one. If there isn't a test seat, what else can you do but wait in line, walk on to the ride and see if you fit?

The one ride I didn't fit into was The Chiller. There was no test seat so I had no idea I wouldn't fit. However, me being too big held up the line for about 20 seconds... It really wasn't that big of a deal.

If Six Flags was in such a position LEGALLY where they HAD to let the man ride, maybe they should look into trying to get some laws amended. I don't know if that would work but the way it is now seems kind of odd.

Very sad day, my condolences to the family. SROS is an intense ride, the restraint has to be tight and the rider has to keep some sense of balance. A loose restraint and a limp rider is not a good combination.

4 different people on 4 different Intamin rides, all using the same restraint system have died. Even though Intamin will not admit to it, there is an obvious design flaw in the restraint system that has been pointed out before in this forum by Dave Altoff. How many more people are going to have to die before this problem is fixed?

But Barry...how do you actually "know" that there is a problem? Have you gone and inspected the seatbelts for yourself? Have you worked with Intamin in the design and testing of them? And how many of these times has it been rider error? Have you thought of that? How many thousands of people have ridden these rides without fail, and yet because 4 people died, not even on the same rides, you want to raise a gigantic red flag saying it's Intamin's fault? I hate the fact that four people died, and I wish none of them did...but do you think it's wise to just jump in and start pointing fingers when there's not enough evidence to conclude whether it actually is Intamin's fault or not?

If there is a design problem do you really think Intamin will ever admit to it? The fact that this has happened four times in the same restraint should raise red flags.
I have questioned the restraint system and the braking system on the Superman rides for many years now. The incidents with that type of restraint are becoming to common to overlook. Not to even mention the various accidents concerning the braking system on the Superman rides. One death is too many. So let the flaming begin.

I feel so sad about this. I think some of you are missing some info. though.

A- SFNE's Safety Record isn't good at all. It's really bad. I mean it didn't have much luck when they took over the park and transformed it... also with the "Blizzard River" death. I've sceene people on the tower free fall thing (I forget the name) at the top when lightning was striking right over them. It was horrifying.

B- I don't think our New England weather helps with wear and tear on the coasters.

C- I love SROS, its such an awesome ride, but a little safety bar is the only thing holding you on the 20 story drop, with no other restraints as I can recall.

D- On an average day, SROS is shut down multiple times due to "maintnece" and requires a lot of it. It gets stuck a lot6DBE fails quite frequently. It isn't exactly the safest thing, but as I stated I think the weather does it.

E- I'd have to say I'm not impressed at all with Six Flags at all...with prices, customer service at most times, employees, ride staff ect. Don't get me wrong, its an awesome time when I go, but it doesn't stand out at all- with the high standrads other parks have i.e. Busch Gardens. I'd say thats a fare comparison.

F- I just went to Busch Gardens in Tampa and was Greatly Impressed at how the park's run. The employee's are awesome, good FAIR prices, and the safety checks are constant. They shut a ride down just because something wasn't in right in 2 seconds and tripel checked everything and kept rides running safe and smoothly.

Six Flags, WATCH OUT, and get your act together FAST with safety and customer support!- I'm not kidding... it needs to be better.

My heart and prayers to the Victim and thoes also on the ride who witnessed- I won't forget you too! I can't even think of the horror/terror you went through- You are in my prayers.