Magic Mountain Gay Pride Night

ApolloAndy said:

Re: BDesvignes
I actually sympathize with you a lot. I can see where your point of view comes from, it is definitely supported in scripture, and I totally understand it. I do think you are being misunderstood because I assume your position is "love the sinner, hate the sin" which is the position I understand Jesus to have taken.

What troubles me is when you draw a line in the sand, whether it be about who goes to heaven or who is a Christian. From the theological side, if you're going to draw the line at homosexuality, then to be consistent you also have to draw the same line for divorce, lust, anger, greed, doubt, arrogance, deception, cowardice (Rev 21:8, etc.) etc. Not to mention you have to forbid women from wearing braids in their hair or gold, pearls or expensive clothes, women speaking up during a lesson (1 Tim 2),and any number of things which don't make sense in today's context. Pretty much we're all screwed. (Thank God for grace, right?)

From the practical side, I've changed my mind about so many various important things in my life that I hesitate to ever say, "Now, I've got it for sure."

Bottom line for me: If you're going to draw the line, draw it consistently, in which case you condemn yourself along with everyone who ever lived, save Jesus. (Which isn't a bad place to start from necessarily, if you allow God's grace to supersede the condemnation.)

Yes my position is "love the sinner, hate the sin". I would apply it to all sins. I was just singling out the one since that was what everyone was talking about. We are all condemned but through the grace of God we can be saved John 3:16-21.

The passages from 1 Timothy chapter 2 that you brought up are interesting and could probably be a whole other discussion especially when you discuss the Greek translations. I would also be interested in what you have to say about the Greek and fulfillment of the law, but that too would probably be another long discussion.

What church do you belong to? Just wondering.

Lord Gonchar said:
I don't believe in God, but if there is one, he/she is probably gay. ;)

(does that count as full circle?)

I'm pretty sure that if you don't believe in God and you support the gays that you're no longer permitted to be a republican.

BDesvignes said:
Why should someone do good things and help people if here is nothing for them when they die.

If you're only doing good things because your God will give you a cookie when you die, I'd argue that you're a pathetic human being. I mean, does your God really reward such a self-serving attitude? That's not very Christ-like, if you ask me. Then again, what do I know? I never met the guy.

Why have kids and populate the earth?

Because that's how organisms survive - reproduction.

Would you do your job if you didn't get paid?

Sure, if I didn't need money to survive. On top of my paycheck, I find the intellectual stimulation and social interaction quite fulfilling, compared to sitting around watching soaps.

I guess we really won't know if something happens until we die, so I've prepared some nice grape koolaid.

Does your God know and/or care that one of the main reasons you believe in him/her/it is because you're simply afraid of the repercussions of not believing in him/her/it?

kpjb said:
I'm pretty sure that if you don't believe in God and you support the gays that you're no longer permitted to be a republican.

Seriously Gonch, why don't you leave that party and become a Libertarian? :)

Probably because he doesn't understand the Dewey Decimal system.

What church do I belong to? The church of Jesus Christ. :P
What denomination? Presbyterian Church (USA)

A lot of the proscriptions (pork, shellfish, etc.) were likely intended to be public health practices. It is kind of important to remember that thousands of years ago the human population was small - keeping people reproductive and alive through childbearing years was critical to survival of the species. (Hence, the gradual weakeneing of various social mores against birth control).

Not all "Thou Shalt Not" commandments were strictly religion-based...or so goes my line of reasoning.

P.S. Just because I realized I'd failed to make it perfectly clear - homosexual behaviors don't result in pregnancy/birth. Hence, it would not lead to increasing the population/genetic pool...not good for survival of a species teetering on the brink.

rollergator said:

P.S. Just because I realized I'd failed to make it perfectly clear - homosexual behaviors don't result in pregnancy/birth.

But it don't hurt to try :) Guess when I find the right guy...

OK, that's my sexual innuendo/racy comment for the year. Some others do a fine job more than filling that quota ;)

Speaking of gay pride/and all the other stuff we have been talking about, I always found it very loving and welcoming for Pat Koch to always stress that EVERYONE was welcome at their park. There is nobody like her... (I know, wrong thread).

edit-changed 'find job' to 'fine job'

CoasterDemon said: OK, that's my sexual innuendo/racy comment for the year. Some others do a find job more than filling that quota ;)

You rang...? :)

^Yes, Dear :)

Saw a great movie on TV this weekend, "The Invention of Lying." It takes place in a world in which people have no concept of lying and everyone tells the truth. Ricky Gervais plays the man who tells the very first lie and that lie snowballs. Comedy ensues.

Without giving away too many spoilers let me set up this funny clip. He's overheard telling his dying mother that death is nothing to be scared of and that after death she'll go to a good place, get good things, and see her loved ones. Since people assume he's telling the truth he then has to make up more lies to explain himself.

Here is the scene in which he explains how he knows what happens after you die. Enjoy.

EDIT - not entirely safe for work.

I totally thought of that movie as well when the discussion turned toward religion. Really fun movie. Jennifer Garner is so much better in comedy.

kpjb said:
I'm pretty sure that if you don't believe in God and you support the gays that you're no longer permitted to be a republican.

I'm not actually a card-carrying member. I just play one on TV.

eightdotthree said:
Seriously Gonch, why don't you leave that party and become a Libertarian? :)

I feel like I identify more with old, white, rich guys.

Lord Gonchar said:
I feel like I identify more with old, white, rich guys.

Weird.. So do I :)

:) Nice.

Hooray! Everyone is breaking down stereotypes!

Speaking of stereotypes, why is the God thing tied to the right? Like there's no religious left.

And haven't most of the gay 'scandals' in politics come from closeted conservatives?

I'm guessing the reality is that the right has more gay atheists than the left. ;)

I think it's because the right overtly identifies with the religious "base" in order to garner votes.

Of course few, if any, on either "side" actually abide by such religious tenets in practice. Which is fine, so long as you're not pimping your false religion for votes.

Lord Gonchar said:
Speaking of stereotypes, why is the God thing tied to the right? Like there's no religious left.

In my experience it's because of the "good old days." All kinds of changes happened at once including globalization, technology, over population, post-modernism, and secularism (as well as America's slowly slipping claim to sole super power status). Whether God is the chicken or the egg, a lot of very vocal older folks I know wish that we could hop in a time machine and go back 50 years.

God is either a chicken or an egg? Man, now I'm really confused! ;)