Lift Hill Speed

Gps would be tracking his location from a satelite in space. He moves so many feet a second and it records it and can give you the speed.

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Proud member of:
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My life is spent in between metal railing, where I stand for hours just to sit down for 3 minutes then to get up and do it allover again.

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ApolloAndy said:
Also, I'm not sure how GPS works, but would the figures quoted by Pale Rider be the absolute speed up the lift of just the speed along the ground (the projection onto the ground) of the train?

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I'm not too familiar with GPS systems myself, but my impression has been that it would depend on how many satellites were being used to do the tracking. Three (maybe four) or more together can determine altitude along with ground position.

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--Maddie--
What do I Listen-To?
Hot stuff.

You Know, They Make The Lift Hill That Slow On Purpose.

Lift hills don't affect the speed of a ride in any way. That's gravity's job. (Plus friction and wind resistance). Lift hills affect how fast you get to the top and they aren't speed demons by any means. Keep in mind that most lift hills run at a constant speed, especially those on wooden coasters. Lift hills on steel coasters also run at pretty much constant speed, but more and more coasters employ multiple speed lift hills using variable speed motors. In coaster simulators like RCT and No Limits, you can adjust lift hill speeds. In RCT, that option may be to keep the guests a little happier since they can get to the top of the hill faster and enjoy their ride sooner. In No Limits, this option allows you to add another degree of realism to your track by similating lift hill speed. Once the train leaves the lift, it's all up to gravity. And once gravity takes over, it all downhill from there!

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Maybe someone should put LIMs on a traditional lift hill and see what happens...

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krazy pete said:
You Know, They Make The Lift Hill That Slow On Purpose.

Lift hills don't affect the speed of a ride in any way.

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-5 points. Would you like to try for a bonus question so you don't fail?

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--Maddie--
What do I Listen-To?
Hot stuff.

Id say it depends on the lift. Chainlifts just spead up wouldnt do much cause they cant go much faster. But a elevator lift like on MF im sure effects its speed because you start the drop at (insert lift speed here) Just like your hot wheels track take it and give the car force going down. Then just let it roll and see which is faster.

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Proud member of:
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My life is spent in between metal railing, where I stand for hours just to sit down for 3 minutes then to get up and do it allover again.

The speed over the top of the lift has only a small effect on the speed of the train. Usually negligable, though some parks don't seem to realize this.

Speed control on lift hills is commonly used in two ways. On the Beast it is used for blocking purposes. The lift runs slow until the next block is cleared. It nearly stops at times. Actually if often seems to start faster then slow down at some check point. On SROS at SFA, the chain is run slowly when there is no train on the lift for aeveral apparent reasons. It reduces wear and tear. It saves energy, and it reduces the impact load when the slow moving train first catches the chain. The chain then speeds up once the train is on the lift.

Why don't they make lifts faster? Going twice as fast up the lift requires twice the horsepower, and everything involved gets bigger and more expensive. Then on many coasters, you'd just get to be stacked longer waiting for the station to clear when you got back. MF has it's high speed lift due to a combination of desire for high capacity, dual station and short running time.

Jim, I don't think the cable lift increases capacity. The bottleneck block is still load and as long as there's always a train in there, the speed of the lift is not important. Also, as long as the running time is longer than the lift time, even if the ops are blazing, the course will become the bottleneck block. I would imagine that even a conventional lift would be able to get a train up to the top in less than the amount of time it takes to run the course. (Basing this in S:RoS SFNE's ~43sec. lift time).

How does dual station affect it?
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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

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TheRIckser said:
But a elevator lift like on MF im sure effects its speed because you start the drop at (insert lift speed here)

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Far less than you might think, actually. (Yes, I know this page was already referenced once in this discussion, but apparently it needs to be again).

Hotwheels aren't a valid comparison point, because of the tiny distances involved for gravity to do its thing. Acceleration due to gravity is a function of time (well, and distance between the objects, but significantly not over the heights we're talking about). The higher the hill, the more time gravity gets to do its thing. Until other factors, like friction due to wind resistance, come into play. That's what "terminal velocity" is all about, for example -- the acceleration due to gravity is offset by the deceleration due to air passing over the object.

Now, take a LAUNCHED "lift", like on the Hulk, and now you ARE making a significant difference, because of the much higher initial speed.

--Greg, who learned over the weekend that the terminal velocity of a penny is about 65mph.

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Friendship -- more lasting than love, more legal than stalking."

If the speed of a lift had a noticable bearing on the speed of the ride, then Dorney's Lazer would never make it through the first loop!

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

In general, the lift hill speed is indeed not affecting the ride very much, as the lift at some point just lets the train "loose" to drop down the first drop.
However, there are rides in which the train is given an initial speed that is added to whatever speed that train gains on the first drop...
and an example of this is as I mentioned SFH Goliath.
I wonder about the U.S. Intamin hypers (The Supermans, MF, etc.) they must be using a similar cable lift-hill concept, and possibly also speed up at the top.
Maybe it's just the Dutch naughtyness though. :o)

Wait a minute, the terminal velocity of a penny is only 65mph? So all the stories about dropping a penny off the Empire State Building and having it go through someone's skull is bunk? (because I don't think a 65mph penny could do that...when bbs probably travel faster than that and might not even break the skin)

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"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza

Correct -- a penny dropped from the Empire State Building, if it even REACHES the ground, will sting, but probably not kill someone. Myth Busted.

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Friendship -- more lasting than love, more legal than stalking."
*** This post was edited by GregLeg 10/20/2003 4:42:29 PM ***

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superman said:
In general, the lift hill speed is indeed not affecting the ride very much, as the lift at some point just lets the train "loose" to drop down the first drop.
However, there are rides in which the train is given an initial speed that is added to whatever speed that train gains on the first drop...
and an example of this is as I mentioned SFH Goliath.
I wonder about the U.S. Intamin hypers (The Supermans, MF, etc.) they must be using a similar cable lift-hill concept, and possibly also speed up at the top.
Maybe it's just the Dutch naughtyness though. :o)

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I can't tell if you're not making clear what you want to say, but if you're thinking what you're saying, you're wrong. The reason that the lift speed doesn't affect the final speed of the train nuch is because energy is linear in height, but squared in velocity (i.e. you have to quadruple the height to get twice the speed).

The only other cable lifted Intamins (afaik) are MF and Ex:GeF.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

And Goliath @ SFH.

Or does Thunder Dolphin in Japan use a cable lift as well?

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

Ah yes. Thunder Dolphin does. I was only thinking Stateside Intamins (and he already mentioned SFH's Goliath :P)

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff