# Lift Hill Speed

Thursday, October 16, 2003 7:35 PM
How fast do lift hills generally go on average? In RCT they say 5-8 miles an hour, but I thought that to be a little fast.

Also, would the speed of the lift generally make a ride faster?

I remember years ago watching a tape of mine about steel phantom, when it was one of the fastest coasters, that it was this way because of the speed of the lift hill as well as the predrop (? if there is one?) caused the ride to start the drop from 17mph instead of only a few miles per hour. I know this might not have been expressed right, but if a lift was generally slower or faster, could it make the negative g's greater/cause a valley?

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 7:38 PM
The speed of the lift chain represents the train's initial velocity. A faster lift chain would lead to a faster ride overall.

Steel Phantom's chain lift operated at "regular" speed. However, the ride reached its top speed at the bottom of its second drop, not its first. The train entered the second drop traveling at 17 mph.

Yes, the speed affects the forces acting on the ride.

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--Maddie--
What do I Listen-To?
Hot stuff.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 7:39 PM
Nobody say anything about MForce. ;)

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Dollywood: Exploding onto the coaster scene since 2004!

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:05 PM
GregLeg has a great explanation of the affect of a lifts speed on the overall speed of a coaster.

The gain in speed is negigible at best.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!
*** This post was edited by MagnumForce 10/17/2003 1:12:39 AM ***

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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:10 AM
I think that's mostly true, Brent, esp. when the lift is tall and the speed of the train is derived mostly from gravity. On the short lift of HSTC, however, I don't know how much the lift speed affects the final train speed. But it sure *seems* to make a big difference in the ride....that next-to-last lap, wow...:)
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Tact is for people not intelligent enough to comprehend sarcasm...;)
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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:27 AM
If you`ve ever riden The Beast, you will notice that when a train crests the lift hill, the lift will actually slow down. This causes the train to travel slightly slower throughout the course. The park does this so the forces aren`t quit as great on the track. This helps keep the train from tearing apart the track.

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Coney Island (Cincinnati) ride operator

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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:35 AM
Gator -- exactly. The longer the drop, the less significant the initial velocity becomes. On HSTC, the teeny little drop IS impacted by how fast you pitch the train over.

I'm doubting that the initial speed on Beast makes that much of a difference. I'm kind of busy right now, anyone want to run the numbers through the equations on my site? On many coasters, the reason for changing the lift's speed mid-operation is for blocking purposes -- making sure the train on the lift doesn't clean before the train out on the course is safely in the next block.

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
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*** This post was edited by GregLeg 10/17/2003 11:23:38 AM ***

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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:54 AM
Years ago (many years ago) when Dorney noticed that their Coaster (Thunderhawk) was running quickly and needed to be slowed down, they tried decreasing the speed of the lift to slow the train down. They found that the difference in speed was almost non-existant, the ride was only about 1 second slower with the slower lift.

When that idea tanked, they added a trim instead.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

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Friday, October 17, 2003 8:04 AM

Rob Ascough said:

When that idea tanked, they added a trim instead.

I suppose they could eliminate all the trims on MS by making the lift run backwards then. :)

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Fever

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Friday, October 17, 2003 8:11 AM
It'd probably be more exciting...

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

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Friday, October 17, 2003 10:26 AM
On the Phantom's Revenge at Kennywood its kinda weird cause sometimes it will start up slow then go faster and sometimes it will start off fast and go slower and then sometimes it will just be fast. I wish I had an answer for this mystery.

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Kennywood Team Member Since July 2003
Phantom Fright Nights Fridays & Saturdays
September 12 - October 25

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Friday, October 17, 2003 10:38 AM
I'm sure the differences in speed have more to do with weather conditions and maintenance than lift hill speed.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

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Friday, October 17, 2003 11:08 AM

Michael Aschenbrenner said:
On the Phantom's Revenge at Kennywood its kinda weird cause sometimes it will start up slow then go faster and sometimes it will start off fast and go slower and then sometimes it will just be fast. I wish I had an answer for this mystery

Block control. I do hope that you're charged with the very important task of handing out Dippin' Dots or something.

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--Maddie--
What do I Listen-To?
Hot stuff.

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Friday, October 17, 2003 11:18 AM
What do you mean?

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Kennywood Team Member Since July 2003
Phantom Fright Nights Fridays & Saturdays
September 12 - October 25

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Friday, October 17, 2003 11:44 AM
I know when I whent down to Kings Island ( for the first time) the beast lift hill was realy slow then whent fast and then back to realy slow. The second hill was normal on this ride I think the chain speed does matter

Sorry If the print is bold I have to fix my computer

I came I saw I rode TTD only at Cedar point

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Friday, October 17, 2003 11:56 AM
Its been proven that chain speed does not matter... the difference in speed is miniscule, at best. Many things influence the speed of a ride: weather, maintenance (grease, wheels, etc.), number and weight of passengers in the train, how tight the trims are... those are all much more important to the speed of a ride.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

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Friday, October 17, 2003 1:17 PM
Michael: PR's lift doesn't randomly change modes or speeds. When 1 train is operating, the lift runs at a constant speed. When 2 trains are operating, the lift slows down briefly to give the ride ops more time to load the other train.

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Six Flags Worlds of Adventure Online

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Friday, October 17, 2003 3:28 PM
The lift speed on Top Thrill Dragster STARTS at 120-123-mph.

Sorry, just rode it last weekend and am still geeked.

MrScott

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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:27 PM
The only lift hill(s) that I know of that intentionally changes speeds is Dueling Dragons...Its a clever idea nonetheless.

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http://nedesigns.com

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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:30 PM
Another interesting tidbit is that at least some part of the frictional force (I know at least the air resistance is, not sure about the bearings or anything else) is proportional to speed. So, the speed vs. time plots of the a train started with a fast lift hill and a slow lift hill will converge towards the end of the course.

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