Lapbars on Arrows

Wednesday, January 9, 2002 4:40 PM
Since the recent innovation of lapbars on FOF do you think that parks would ever do it on rough steel looping coasters? I think this would be a great idea because they are fun if it wasn't for the heading banging. On most of the arrows I have been on the track isn't rough at all it is just the restraints. Anyone else think parks would ever do this? Especially the mega loopers like viper at SFMM
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SFDL NEEDS A GOOD EXPANSION!!!!!!!
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Wednesday, January 9, 2002 4:41 PM
whoa maybe the way to fix DF
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?
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Wednesday, January 9, 2002 4:48 PM
Flight of Fear was a Premiere manufactured coaster.

I highly doubt Arrow will go the route of lap bars since they are Arrow, and there have been no talks, or even confirmed rumors they would switch any current, past, or future loopers to those.

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...Wondering what the 2002 season holds for all parks...

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Wednesday, January 9, 2002 4:53 PM
Yeah but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?

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Wednesday, January 9, 2002 6:08 PM
If Premier can do it, so can Arrow. I am pretty sure the parks would have to approach Arrow to make the changes. I highly doubt Arrow would approach them.

Someone mentioned awhile back that Paramount told Premier they wanted the FOF coasters to be retrofitted. It wasnt Premiers idea.

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""An hour wait for a 2 minute thrill. Yes, we need our heads examined""

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Wednesday, January 9, 2002 6:52 PM
I think that Arrow would have some big problems retrofitting to a new lapbar system.  Phantoms Revenge has lapbars, but they have to come from the side instead of from the front.  A lapbar locking mechanism is located in a diffrent position than the OTSR's.  It would also take some work on the body to give room for a lapbar, either if it was on the side, or in the front.  As much as I'd like to see it happen, I highly doubt that parks would invest the time and money to do it.

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Corey
"Have you ever tried backing out of a drive-through bank?" - George Carlin

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:31 AM
Where I can't see lap bars on Arrow loopers, I could see the ArrowBatic/X-like restraints replacing their current ones. They could be mounted at the same position where the current OTSR's are, and be able to save a ton of $$$$ as opposed to having to redesign the train to put lap bars in.

The design could be optional and be featured in an Arrow product catalog.

What do you think, Fred?

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:26 AM
John - That is one solution that I hadn't thought of! I have yet to ride X, but all I've been hearing are how they are so comfortable.

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Corey
"Have you ever tried backing out of a drive-through bank?" - George Carlin

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 3:17 AM
What park is going to invest a million + dollars to either re-fit their current trains with a more comfortable restraint, or get completely new ones with different restraints for Arrow looping coasters that are anywhere from 5 to 20 years old?

It just seems like a silly investment. Even if the crowds have dwindled down to a trickle, it would just seem a waste of money that could be used for something else.

Unless that particular coaster is so rough, that some kind of more comfortable restraint would HELP... and is duely noted by guests & park staff... it's not going to happen.

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...Wondering what the 2002 season holds for all parks...

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 3:57 AM
you can't use just lap bars on a multy loop arrow coaster. just think if it got stuck upside down in a loop. the insurance co.'s will never let it be done.
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Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:31 AM
they did it on FOF why not on a arrow?

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SFDL NEEDS A GOOD EXPANSION!!!!!!!

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:50 AM
The way arrow trains are sunk down it may be hard to put lap bars on them  but maybe premier or someone else could make a business of making new trains for arrow/vekoma coasters
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Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:39 AM
Hey, I'd love it if some of the old Arrow rides were retrofitted, but, as it was stated earlier, why would a park invest money in that project?  The Premier rides are still relatively new, as is their unique ride-launching technology.  There is something to be gained by keeping those rides popular and their queue lines filled.  It won't bring more people into the park, but it might keep more people riding them, instead of clogging the lines for a brand new ride.  Shorter lines, happier guests, more repeat visits?  Hey, perhaps.

For rides like Demon and Shock Wave at SFGAm, however, their general appeal has dwindled as they've aged.  Imagine: "Yeah, that huge blue and white looping thing looks cool, but I hear they have a ride here where you go forwards and backwards through three loops, and up vertical towers."  There's a lot to be said for novelty.

So until parks are going to gain money from tearing down a ride with low ridership, or retrofitting an old ride with new lap bars, it just isn't going to happen.

Besides, how would you advertise a ride with new restraints?  It's almost as superficial a change to the general public as a different paint job.

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:43 AM
B&M and Intamin are so smooth because the have spring system on the wheels/trains. It absorbs much of the roughness. Arrow Premier ETC. are so rough because the trains are screwed right to the wheel base rigid so everything the wheels feel you feel. This would not be a problem as long as you have the right restraints and their over shoulders just won't do it. Look for Premiere to become really big once they finished refitting all their coasters and coming out with coasters premade with lapbars. I'm not sure what Arrow could do
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Nitro Rocks...enough said
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Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:11 AM
Ohhh, I don't know if I'd want to ride SFMM's Viper with a lap bar. I don't think I'd want to risk damage to my *special care* area during those rough transitions. ;)
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Have you ever considered that it may not be the park that's the problem, but YOU???
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Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:20 AM
DawgByte, I would really doubt that it would cost millions to outfit a train with lapbars.
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CP! Still the coaster capital of the world in 2002!
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WoodenCoaster.com
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Thursday, January 10, 2002 5:41 PM
I think a park would get nice ROI by putting lapbars on a coaster. I could be wrong, though. I'm guessing it would cost around 200,000 per train, but I have no idea if that's anywhere near accurate. I could be way off. Take a  ride like Shockwave at Great America for example. Some people like it, but it is nowhere near as popular as the other rides. The reason is because it hurts your neck, back, and head. I always hear riders getting off saying "Ow, my head. I'll never ride that again!" But, if they put in lapbars, it wouldn't be rough. The ride would be very intense. Shockwave has better capacaity than Deja Vu, and once the lapbars have been on about half a year, people will tell other people the ride is really fun now. People will ride Shockwave, figuring they'll give it another try. Assuming they like intense rides, they would like Shockwave with lapbars. People would be happier riding Shockwave, since the line would be shorter because of the higher capacity then DV or V2, thus more fun for how long you're waiting.  Then, when they think of going to the park, they will think of the fun things to do there, and Shockwave will come to mind. Then, there will be a new reason to go. It would be like adding a whole new ride, at a fraction of the cost. All of this is only my opinion, so don't flame me for it.

*** This post was edited by SFGA2001 on 1/10/2002. ***

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:03 PM
People, People,  It has already been done!

Phantoms Revenge is Arrows original Chassis with a Morgan Retrofit tub.

Now, would those restraints hold you upside down?

Chuck

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Charles Nungester
Park Jockey :)

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:15 PM
Phantom's Revenge is also now a non-looping hyper-coaster. They had no choice... I don't know of any ride in the world that's non-looping and have OSTR/horsecollars as restraints. It'd be just plain nutty and make no sense.

Lap bars would hold you upon inversions, even corkscrew inversions... the problem has been mentioned previously... what good would it really do to retrofit old coasters? How do you advertise/promote an old coaster with new trains or restraints?

I can see NEW Arrow loopers or re-located Arrow loopers, but that's about it. Even if they are old and bumpy... it wouldn't make sense financially for a park to invest in a coaster unless there was other upgrades made to it as well (ie: paintjob, re-theme, re-name, move, effects...etc etc etc).

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...Wondering what the 2002 season holds for all parks...

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Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:17 PM
I think a lot of people here missed what John Peck said.  I think it'd be a brilliant idea to use their Arrowbatic restraints.   I have no idea how much it'd cost to switch restraint types but I don't think it'd be too steep and it could help revitzlize interest in older arrows.

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Just wait till next year!

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