Knoebels has dress code police?

I see a few different view points - but I have to say I find a dress code rather refreshing.

I can't tell you how many "profane or suggestive" t-shirts I've seen at Cedar Point this year - and they clearly were vulgar and obscene at best. It seems the front gate is not catching them or reading them in the mad rush of crowds...

On the other hand - there is a code - then there is the simple matter of good taste. If I see one more pair of "Juicy" pants snuggly fit on a size 12 or 14 pair of hips I think I'm going to hurl....

I am not a Holister model - and elect to cover up appropriately and tastefully -- My retina's are still scarred and burning from some of the wardrobe choices people at the parks are making...

Camden Crazy said:

Which is such a copout and extremely unprofessional. You don't see any other parks pulling crap like that.

Other parks open a new ride then shortly after trim the first drop.

None? That's never happened before? Are you absultely sure of that?

One thing that hasn't been brought up is that in PA there were (and maybe still are) some rather antiquainted public health codes that have been in effect since the first couple of decades of the Twentieth Century. I can remember such rules at the parks that I frequented growing up there back in the 1960's and 70's being posted, followed by a phrase stating "As per (insert town, boro or county name) public health code # (insert number).

I find the "eat my shorts" shirt being objectionable when KI sells a shirt that says "I'd rather be riding a woodie"

I don't easily offend, so vulgar tshirts are very "meh" to me. If it's actually funny or not is the big question; dumb shirts irritate me more than seeing an "f" word

But I guess the no bikinis to no beer bellies trade off is fair enough for hot roller coaster lines. *sighs @ imperfect world*

Tekwardo said:

Camden Crazy said:
Which is such a copout and extremely unprofessional. You don't see any other parks pulling crap like that.

How exactly is that unprofessional?

The park is essentially saying "Well, we really have no idea what we're doing and got in way over our head, and instead of come out and explain the situation and/or do something about it, we're going to keep everyone in the dark and let the ride sit there and rot without making any effort to open it". How is that not unprofessional, one, and two, why waste your money on something you know you're not competent enough to build when you could've built a mountain woodie or another type of coaster to replace Whirlwind? Flying Turns is now a white elephant. They're clearly not going to ever open it.

Forgive me for being impatient, but I'd expect a tad more out of my home park than this.

Wait, initially the park basically told everyone "We're building something that hasn't been built in years, we don't have anyone who has experience, but we think we could build something amazing, and please be patient with us because we don't have a firm timetable as to when it will open". That's what you do to be professional.

You contradict yourself, first you say the park says one thing, but yet is keeping the people in the dark. I've never felt in the dark about this ride, and I've never even been to the park. I know there are signs up stating that they are unsure of when it will run.

That is what professionals do, though.

why waste your money on something you know you're not competent enough to build when you could've built a mountain woodie or another type of coaster to replace Whirlwind?

So when they do finally get a working trough and train, will you consider this all a waste of money? And who is to say they're wasting, they could have budgeted for this.

Seems like the only 'problem' you have here is that you want something that the park never promised to give you in any specific time frame (or in the case of buidling something else, something the park never promised at all). And I think it has less to do about being competent than it does about finding what works. If they weren't competent enough to build it, it wouldn't be there. There was no working model, and in this case they decided to build a 'finished' prototype and go with it.

The park looks massive and they have tons of flats and 2 highly rated wooden coasters, they're trying to bring back an experience that hasn't been around in decades, they've never promised you that it will be done in any certain amount of time, the park gets acclame for the way it's run and the way they maintain their rides, and because this ride is open, they're unprofessional? Seems to me like they're doing everything they can and keeping the public informed. I'd call that at the very least good PR.

No. The park clearly said, "This is a large, unique project, and we have no diea what our timeline will be, because we can't foresee what problems will arise, so we will give no opening date until we get it working". I believe that they are competent enough to build it, it's just taking longer than they expected. I don't see any evidence that they have decided that it will never open.

And so what if it your home park? Many coaster enthusiasts like Knoebels, probably just as much as you do.

My sincere advice is to take a deep breath, and expect it to open when it opens. If you are right, and it never opens, what should it matter to you? Knoebels doesn't owe you anything, not a mountain woodie, not a flying turns replica, nothing. Enjoy what they have. It's still a great park without Flying Turns. :)

EDIT - Tekno beat me to it. We both said just about the same thing, but with different words. :p

Just to add firewood to the bonfire...

Flying Turns is something no one else would be competent to build. Knoebels has the *absolute utmost technical skill* in the industry when it comes to issues mechanical and otherwise.

The fact that they were trying to re-create a lost ride from a bygone era deserves applause, not jeers. Honestly, if not for the trains needing to be recreated from scratch, with all of the restrictions and limitations (legal and safety-wise) that did NOT exist when that type of ride was popular - I think we'd have been riding for the last year or two.

When Dick announced the ride - the first thing he said was "this is a PROJECT, we're in it for the long haul, it will be completed when it's completed and not one day sooner"...that was your warning. They have reiterated that statement countless times in countless ways....

Finally - I'd give anything for KG to be MY home park. You can have the entire Disney empire here in Orlando...

Oh Gator, you (eggs)Benedict Arnold! :-)

Jerry said:
I can't tell you how many "profane or suggestive" t-shirts I've seen at Cedar Point this year - and they clearly were vulgar and obscene at best. It seems the front gate is not catching them or reading them in the mad rush of crowds...

How can you be sure that Cedar Point isn't the entity selling those shirts?

Knoebels is well within its rights to enforce a dress code, so long that code does is not against any laws. I applaud parks that actually make the effort to enforce their own policies.

Camden, I'm not sure what you mean by saying the park is letting the ride sit there and rot without making any effort to open it. The structure is complete, as are all the mechanical and electrical systems. It's the issues with getting cars to perform properly that are delaying the ride opening. Since they're not working on the trains on the site, how can you claim with certainty that nothing is being done to open the ride?

From what I've heard and overheard other people saying, because there aren't a dozen people crawling all over the track, they think they're not working on it. Isn't it more of a waste of money to pay people to walk around and look and point just to give the appearance of ongoing construction?

I think it's more unprofessional to announce deadlines you know can't or won't be kept. Kind of like, we'll have that oil leak plugged any day now.

Camden Crazy said: Flying Turns is now a white elephant. They're clearly not going to ever open it.

Care to wager some money on that?

The last Bartlett designed Flying Turns ceased to be in 1969 with the demise of Euclid Beach Park. I may be wrong but I believe that none of the maintenance staff from there that took care of it are still with us. Yes there are some drawings of the ride and it's rolling stock, but Bartlett was notorious for making changes and modifications during construction and then not documenting them. From what I understand that no two of these rides were anywhere near being similar let alone indentical. In essence Knobels is re inventing the wheel, so to speak. The trough was the easy part. Getting the trains through them safely is the tricky part. With no one to ask "what did you do to take care of this issue?" the process takes a lot longer than most people would anticipate.

Well yeah...if you put it that way.... ;)

Dutchman said:
The last Bartlett designed Flying Turns ceased to be in 1969 with the demise of Euclid Beach Park. I may be wrong but I believe that none of the maintenance staff from there that took care of it are still with us. Yes there are some drawings of the ride and it's rolling stock, but Bartlett was notorious for making changes and modifications during construction and then not documenting them. From what I understand that no two of these rides were anywhere near being similar let alone indentical. In essence Knobels is re inventing the wheel, so to speak. The trough was the easy part. Getting the trains through them safely is the tricky part. With no one to ask "what did you do to take care of this issue?" the process takes a lot longer than most people would anticipate.

Just to clarify a few facts:
The last operating Flying Turns was the Coney Island bobsled which was demolished at the end of the 1974 season.

The Coney Island and Riverview Flying Turns were mirror images, but otherwise identical - both models premiered at World's Fairs. This design is essentially what Knoebels is building with some extras.

The Knoebels have spoken with the Bonsignore's who ran the Coney Island Bobsled and got a lot of needed information from that.

The million dollar question around Knoebels – “When is the Flying Turns going to open?” The answer is the same today as it has been since the beginning of the project, “When it’s done.”Well, when is it going to be done? We really can’t give a definitive answer other than, “As soon as possible.” We knew when we took this project on that there would be serious challenges along the way. Did we think it would take this long? No.Are we shocked that it has taken this long? No.Unlike a traditional coaster, we didn’t have hundreds of working models to observe.As we’ve worked through the project, we’ve learned more and more about the history of the Turns and the challenges this ride presented to those who ran and maintained them. We sure wish we could have known everything we now know at the beginning of the project. But even with all the research that had been done, we couldn’t know all that we do now because now, we’ve seen a train run in the trough. In fact, we’ve seen several variations of a train run in several variations of the trough.That leads us to where are we now? We’re certainly further along than ever before. We’ve seen problems first hand and are addressing them. If you visit the park, you’ll see that portions or the trough have been re-profiled. The service track has been moved alongside the brake run and lift 3 is changed. We are eagerly awaiting final plans for a new train design to be followed as quickly as possible by production of that train.Can this all be accomplished during the 2009 season? Everyone involved with the project certainly hopes so and at this point we believe it’s possible. Watch this spot for further developments.THIS IS MY BIGGEST PROBLEM!!! How about an update so we don't have to guess? It's not 2009 anymore!

I was under the impression that the Coney Island ride was SBNO when it was demolished, which was the ususal route that most of the now gone coasters there went. It is safe to say that the last three of these rides ceased to be within a five year span.

Mamoosh said:

Camden Crazy said: Flying Turns is now a white elephant. They're clearly not going to ever open it.

Care to wager some money on that?

I'd put $100 on it. They're way past the point of caring and are too broke to remove it. If they genuinely cared about opening the ride, don't you think they would've posted at least SOMETHING after their last "update" in early 2009?

It's a shame, that money could've gone towards a Boulder Dash on steroids. And no, I'm not whining because I didn't get what I want...I was really looking forward to Flying Turns, but why not give us something that, oh you know, you had a chance of opening before 2030?