Kings Dominion announces Dominator

^^ I guess you're forgetting about a wood coaster and S&S tower at Dorney Park named Thunderhawk and Dominator, respectively?

Who said it matters so much to some people? And so what if it does? I'm sure there are a few logical reasons why names are used again and again and that makes it all fine and dandy, but I think it shows a lack of creativity. Some people don't give a crap. I do. Does that satisfy your wondering why it's a topic that's worth bringing up time and time again?

*** This post was edited by Rob Ascough 10/24/2007 1:49:04 PM ***

Cedar Fair gets a big 0 out of 10 in the creativity department. Could their coaster names be much more generic? The are horrible at theming, horrible at naming coasters (don't expect anything to actually go with the current themes of their newly acquired parks) and great at slapping coasters down. The new location for the floorless should make Cedar Fair execs feel right at home if they don't landscape it. It is going on what is currently a parking lot. Much like what most of Cedar Point is now.

The ride is going beside the International Street area, which would leave open thousands of options for creative coaster naming, and names that would generate much more merchandise sales than Dominator. Perhaps something with a Spy theme. The Spy store and museum in DC is VERY busy. Ride names ARE relevant to park income because a good, creative name can generate a lot of merchandise sales.

Amusement parks should be an immersive experience. Generic, re-used names do not provide that. Coming up with a creative name isn't a huge expense. Grade school children can do a better job that what Cedar Fair is paying for. Coming up with new creative names and theming provides a unique experience at each park. I would think that these parks would want some individuality, it encourages people to travel to the park instead of just going to the one closest to them. If everything is named the same as other parks, people who aren't aware of details are going to assume its the same ride as the park nearest to them........

This coaster IMO is the best inversion coaster in the east. It deserves a unique, creative name. Paramount was horrible at just slapping cheesy movie titles on rides. Cedar Fair is going to be worse with their generic naming of rides.*** This post was edited by super7* 10/24/2007 1:55:42 PM ****** This post was edited by super7* 10/24/2007 1:57:01 PM ***

I'd rather see a park with an immersive theme, or no theme whatsoever. Cedar Fair and Six Flags are guilty of coming up with something in the middle and that's one of the reasons I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with regional theme parks. A few plywood cutouts in the queueing area doesn't qualify as a theme. The name Dominator obviously does nothing to suggest a theme, so why not go with something that's appropriate for the part of the park it will call home?

Rob,you're forgetting that most people in Muskegon have never been to Dorney park & vice versa & most likely never will.So what if CF execs recycle the name at it's new location? Most of KD's target demographic have no idea of the existence of other rides with similar names within the chain,nor do they care.

SFI does the same with many of their rides but we don't see half as many complaints & besides when one actually decides to ride an attraction the last thing they're gonna be thinking about as they stand in the queue is how generic or "lame" the ride's name is.They're gonna be more concerned about how long the queue time is gonna be instead.

Cedar Fair *could* get a unique name/theme/storyline, complete with props, scenery, the works...with EVERY newly-installed ride. And I'd work for CHEAP, too.... ;)

But where's the ROI in that? ;)

^^ But I'm not talking about people in Muskegon, I'm talking about myself. Not every comment has to take other people into consideration. I'm taking a shot at Cedar Fair's lack of creativity and I don't see why every opinion around here has to be justified by how it impacts- or fails to impact- someone else.

If you buy a puke green car, you might have your reasons for picking that color but it doesn't mean I have to think highly of your decision.

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It is going on what is currently a parking lot. Much like what most of Cedar Point is now.

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How so exactly? Cedar Point's rides arn't even close to any of the parking lots. That's what is good about CP, they don't just stick rides in the parking lot like some parks out there do. Even under the ride there is no pavement.

I'm going to attack the naming issue from two fronts:

First of all, you can't reuse the merchandise, because most likely it says "Geauga Lake" somewhere on there.

Second of all, super7* and anyone else, there are amusement parks and there are themeparks. The two are not the same. Very few parks actually make it all the way to being themeparks where you feel like you're somewhere else. Busch Gardens Europe gets close, but when you can see your car from Griffon or Apollo's Chariot, it brings you back to realizing that you're just in a more expensive amusement park.

Most parks are never going to be a Walt Disney World, where you never see how the magic is created, if you will. Sure, The Haunted Mansion (for example) is just a facade with a giant warehouse for the rest of the ride, but the only way the public would know that would be if they went onto a satellite mapping program.

And I don't think it was the case of not trying either. We were told at the ACE Fall Thrillfest that the reason they hadn't released the information yet was because they were trying out a bunch of different names, and they were actually aiming for a November announcement date.

Not knowing what really happened, perhaps they couldn't find something that worked better, maybe there was a deadline to get a new name and it didn't happen etc. If the lack of a "creative" unique name detracts from the ride and the park for you, then maybe it's time to take a break from coaster riding. Just look up how many "Wildcats" there have been over the years.

You also mention that a unique name would cause people to travel to a park that's not closest to them. That's not the way it works for most people. Remember again, that most parks are never going to be WDW, or Universal, and even those parks reusue names for their rides!

I have a feeling the naming process took all of 15 seconds.

"What should we name the ride?"

"Well, it used to be called Dominator..."

"Sounds good to me."

Cedar Point "feels" like a parking lot, because of lack of trees. The Midway area, the Dragster Area and even Frontier Town is getting that feel. Mass tree removal everytime they install a major ride. It definitely takes away from atmosphere.

Busch and Europapark are 2 of the few true theme parks outside of Disney, that's true. However, there is a 2nd level that still provides a nice "getaway" atmosphere and improves the overall experience.

There is value to this B-Class "theming". Some examples. Grizzly surrounded by the woods of Old Va (until they hacked all the trees down) had much more experience to it than the same coaster by a generic name because it fit the area in which it was placed. The scrambler was once named Witchdoctor at King's Dominion. Even though its just a scrambler, the names of the rides give the park a certain unique charm. Especially when they fit in the themed area.

When King's Island, King's Dominion, (especially) Carowinds and Wonderland were built, they all fell into this category. Sure most of the rides were standard flat rides and coasters, but most of the rides were named to fit the theme, and the buildings around them matched that too. The 2 Great America's also fell into this category. Each "themed" section had a distinctive feel to it.

Paramount managed to destroy much of that in the parks they took over. The absolutely destroyed Carowinds, with ride removal and theme removal far from the original, charming Carolina theme. Except for the awful superhero licensed stuff, Great America in IL has kept its theming. But look at what Paramount did to what was once an identical park in CA.

The 2 King's parks are isolated for the most part from the oustide world, surrounded by acres of woods. That is part of the charm. King's Island has totally been hacked up with mis-theming such as the placement of Itlalian Job, Tomb Raiderl the non-themed Action Zone and the detoriation of Rivertown to the Nickolodeon area. Why they still bother calling the one area Oktoberfest is a good question........it is a total hodge-podge compared to its original concept.

King's Dominion has some major errors, most of them recent. Such as the go-kart track, removal of the train, and the Flight of Fear ride in Africa, filling in Lake Charles etc. However, for the most part, this park has kept most of its charm and more fits into place in this park than King's Island. King's Island has lost its feel, King's Dominion still has most of it. This generic coaster is another step away from that "feel".

*** This post was edited by super7* 10/24/2007 4:35:15 PM ***

I was hoping for "Steel Hawk Force Streak."

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I guess you're forgetting about a wood coaster and S&S tower at Dorney Park named Thunderhawk and Dominator, respectively?

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Yep, I did forget about those actually. Thanks for illustrating my point. :)

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Who said it matters so much to some people?

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The multitude of posts complaining about parks' lack of creativity every time a name is reused kinda tipped me off.

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I'm sure there are a few logical reasons why names are used again and again and that makes it all fine and dandy

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Precisely! :)

Oh my God. You few all complaining about the name of the ride....Any of you aware that Cedar Fair is still carrying a $2 billion dollar debt load? You think their opting out on spending additional thousands of dollars for a new service mark, new logo design, merchandise, and queue signage as a lack of creativity? Please. Get real. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the name, or the act of the partnership reusing it. It is generic enough to plop down into Kings Dominion, yet conveys a sense of great power -- which should reflect very well on the ride.

halltd, Vater, and BatwingFanSFA have good points. A majority of the people that these rides are to be marketed to have no idea they are relocated coaseters, nor will they be familiar with these "reused" names. That's the magic in relocating assetts. You'll end up annoying a select bunch of enthusiasses, but at the end it won't matter because the reality is that a big chunk of their business doesn't come from any of us. Walk around Kings Dominion opening day and ask people what they think of the ride Dominator and its name. Chances are you won't find anybody that will say -- "Well, it's not very creative."

Vater, you forgot about the Top Spin named Thunderhawk at Worlds of Fun! And yes, this does happen every single time that someone duplicates a name at another park.The parks could be on opposite coasts, they could be on different continents, heck in different galaxies and still someone would complain!

The only people it confuses (or in some cases annoys) is us because we travel all over the place. If it's at your homepark and you don't travel, well that's the only Thunderhawk or Dominator that exists.

^^ You must've missed me being sarcastic. I think parks reusing names is dumb. But, I also work in a creative industry and have designed themed environments before. So, I am more "sensitive" to these types of things than the normal person. Will the average park guest notice the name is the same? Probably not. Will the average park guest not ride because it doesn't fit into the "theme" of the area? Probably not. But, does that make it right? No. It's just lazy and shows the overall direction of the partnership.

Kudos to them for reusing the ride and being able to save a ton of money by installing it in another of their parks. That's the biggest cost in a coaster - the design and construction of the ride. They already have the ride. So, why not spend some time and money in getting something you already own to "fit" better in the park and enhance the atmosphere? Would that put them out of business? Uh no.

Lots of you guys have the attitude of "who cares" for tons of things. You guys think we are weird for caring about the details. Well, I for one think if you don't pay attention to the little details, you're not going to have a good product. All you have to do is look at Disney. They spent millions of dollars and years of time to put in the extra details that allow them to generate billions of dollars in profit. If an entertainment company like Cedar Fair doesn't even take the time to generate something as simple as a unique and creative name for a "record-breaking" signature coaster for one of their parks, it shows where their priorities lie.

edit: Oh yeah. If no one travels to other Cedar Fair parks besides their home park, why does Cedar Fair offer the Platinum Pass? If people had no intention of going to any other Cedar Fair park, why would anyone buy this Platinum Pass? Surely they didn't create the pass just for enthusiasts!
*** This post was edited by halltd 10/24/2007 8:38:50 PM ***

Well at least they didn't name it "floorless coaster #1". ;)

halltd, you do make an interesting comment in that why would Cedar Fair offer the Platinum Pass? Why do any of the majors offer passes that get you in for free (or close to free minus parking)? You say surely CF didn't create the Platinum pass just for enthusiasts? I wouldn't be so sure. I know two people who already bought their passes two Saturdays ago. Kaching! With 108 ACE members (and their non-ACE guests) at the Fall Thrillfest event almost two-weeks ago, I bet plenty more people bought their passes already.

So let's take a look at Cedar Fair in our example. I don't know about you, but I can't tell you how many people that I've told I'm into coasters/amusement parks ask me if I've been to Cedar Point. This is not a park that is in need of excess publicity. If the people who've asked me haven't already been there themselves, then surely they are aware of the park due to multiple t.v. specials found on cable t.v. that either mutually feature the park, or feature one of its coasters.

Therefore, in the sense of the general public, I think the pass is more directed towards people who will go to KD and then also vacation at CP. And there's the huge difference. KD is a one-day park, whereas someone will easily need a day-and-1/2 to two-days at CP to ride everything. You might add another full day if the family wants to go to Soak City/Challenge Park as well.

I'm also going to use one of Lord Gonchar's favorite business terms--"Perceived Value." If I buy a Platinum Pass and you tell me that one of the benefits is getting into another Cedar Fair property for free, then that'll make me feel good plus having that snazzy jacket. Maybe you have family who live in another state near a CF property and you'd like to visit for free. It certainly would've come in handy when my late grandparents resided in Allentown, PA.

Look at the distance to get to another CF property from KD. Carowinds is easily seven hours or more. DP is about five hours or more. Clearly, the pass is setup for one state and that's Ohio and the CP/KI connection.

The Six Flags season pass should be as expensive as the Platinum Pass because a lot of their parks tend to be closer together. For instance, take a look at traveling from SFA to SFGadv. to SFNE, or SFGAM to SFSTL, or SFOT to SFFT. We're still talking some four to five-hour stretches, but not the seven-hours plus of Carowinds.

The Busch pass (which is really expensive) makes sense if you're planning a trip to Florida. Go to BGE, and then if you're traveling to FL, go to SWO, and BGA.

Lastly, halltd, I still say trying to compare a CF property to Disney just doesn't work. Cedar Fair does not have the money to be pouring $100-million dollars into an attraction like Expedition Everest, or any other $100-million dollar investments for that matter.

Batwing Fan SFA, Floorless Coaster #1 is in New Jersey. And you call yourself an enthusiast:)

Lack of creativity and some kind of theming is producing a lower quality product. But that is the way things are done these days. Make it as cheap as possible for short term profits, forget the quality. It seems that companies like Cedar Fair have decided that their customers are not worth the effort. It is a shame that they have their hands on so many parks now.

Cedar Point has always been a collection of big thrill rides in a mediocre, outdated location. Other than the lake, there is no atmosphere there. Hopefully they will not take all of these other parks down to that level.*** This post was edited by super7* 10/25/2007 4:01:37 PM ***

I don't think Cedar Point has a mediocre or outdated location. Actually, I think the location on the lake is what gives it a unique setting which is quite stunning on the lifts of their bigger riders. That's also why I think they've been able to "get away with" a lack of theming on their rides. But, now that they own parks that ARE in mediocre locations, they need to add something to their rides to bring people in.

I was not saying Cedar Fair should spend $100 million on a coaster. I was simply making an analogy. Disney goes out of their way to make sure all the tiny details are taken care of. This is why they can charge what they do and why they have been so successful. I was simply stating that Cedar Fair should at least care about naming, colors and siting of their signature rides. These things don't cost a ton of money. But, they do take thought and creativity.

When I spend money to travel, I like to do things that are unique. Why would I travel all over the world to keep going to the "same" places? I'm sure other people feel the same way.

Let's say I wasn't an enthusiast, but had a Platinum Pass and was thinking about traveling to other CF parks, you bet I'm going to look up their parks online and see what they have to offer. If I see a bunch of the same names as my home park, I'm probably going to look elsewhere to spend my money. Since I'm no enthusiast, I don't know what an Intamin, B&M or Top Spin is. But, if everything at this other park looks similar to my home park, why would I travel? They have the same food outlets, lots of the same ride names, to me it looks the same. I guess I'll go to Busch Gardens instead.

I'm not saying this will happen because of Dominator. But, in general, this is the direction I see them taking. If they want to pull in more people from outside their "region", they need to make their parks more unique.

^ The lakefront location is the best thing about Cedar Point. The second best thing is the Blue Streak. I can't think of a third.

Why get so deep into this naming thing? Isn't it okay to say "I think reuse of names sucks because it shows a lack of creativity" or "The reuse of names makes sense from a financial standpoint" and just leave it at that?