Kingda Ka: Could it work anywhere else in the SF chain

SF parks that I've had generally great experiences at:

SFOT, SFFT, SFNE, SFNO, SFEG, SFGam, GE, SFMW

SF parks that were poorly run IMO:

SFMM, SFAW, SFGadv, SFKK, SFA

I agree with Fanatic, they're not all created equal, and about half of them have above average service. But the one's that are bad are *so* bad...

---

Ride of Steel said:
Well maybe you've just had a bad experience. Some are grumpy, but every time I go there and sit down somewhere waiting for someone a worker always comes over and gives me a glass of water and asks me how my day is.

---

Are you serious? Does CP have workers walking around with glasses of water looking for people who look lonely?

I waited for a friend for a half hour this year at CP and nobody gave me nothing. Come to think of it, I was standing. Maybe I should have sat down. :)

- Jeff

---

Six Flags Over Nebraska Said:

Your looking at it from an enthusiasts point of view and not the view of the general public. The average person who attends Astroworld is going to live in Houston and have no clue that Cedar Point exists much less an idea of where Sandusky Ohio is.

---

What if he lives in texas? just because he said he goes to cp every year, that means that he lives in ohio. i'v talked to poeple rom flordia and california there before. and they said they would definitly make the trip again. You are just assuming that because he goes to cp evey year he lives close.

I go to disney world every year, does that mean i live in flordia? your looking at from the "guy that doesn't want to travel anywhere" point of view.

That is the whole point of this thread, Which park would it be best at to get poeple from a X mile radius to come to the park. *** Edited 11/26/2004 1:55:42 PM UTC by MForce Aholic***

/\The obvious Difference in him going to CP every year regardless of where he lives and the average GPer in Huston that SFoN was talking about is that Everybody here is an enthusiast. Enthusiasts in Texas, Florida, heck, London and Japan are going to know about Cedar Point, and if they have the money and want to, can go every year.

But that dosen't mean that anybody in London, Japan, West Virginia, or even Penn and other Ohio Surrounding states are going to know that CP exists.

I know that Fuji-Q, LaQuay, Nagashima, Thorpe, Alton, and quite a few other smaller even less known to Enthusiasts exists, but thats because this is my hobby. SFoN was saying that people that are GP and don't get into parks/coasters that much wont' know about these other parks.

I could start talking about over seas parks to my friends and family who do travel, and they're not going to have a clue as to what I'm talking about because I'm sure they've never heard of those places. Not even Nagashima, which had the worlds tallest coaster at one point (or for that matter, Fuji-Q that had the same thing...)

Most people I told didn't have a clue what Cedar Point and Geauga Lake were when I went this year. And we border Ohio...

You're looking at it as "an enthusiasts who knows about parks outside of his genaral market area" POV, and that, my friend, is not going to help anybody running a park.

And I'm sure that SFoN didn't assume that RoS lives in Oh(and I'm pretty sure he dosen't, but could be wrong), but was banking on him being an enthusiast.

Your Argument made little sense. *** Edited 11/26/2004 2:59:30 PM UTC by TeknoScorpion***

I think that Kinda Ka was put in a strategic location, which for six flags is good. Six flags though has bad service, not social, rude, don't clean the park when geauga lake was six flags ohio, but when cedar fair bought the park, Wow have things changed, I really ejoyed myself this last year i attended.

Late to the topic, but we have to see if it works at SFGAdv first. ;)

---

Lord Gonchar said:

If you think in terms of potential market and competition, the park that (in my eyes) truly gets spoiled is SFOG. Atlanta isn't exactly hugely populous and there's nothing nearby to compete with on an amusement park level, but the additions keep flying there. With Acrophobia, Deja Vu, S:UF and this past year's smaller additions, I'd be surprised to see much more go in down there anytime soon. That's the park that doesn't make sense to keep adding rides to to me.

Just the way I see it.

---

Gonch,

SFoG isn't JUST for ATL. You gotta realize that SFoG draws from parts of FL, all of GA, Mississippi, SC, and TN, and parts of NC. That's a ton of people. Also keep in mind that PCar resides a few hours away that SOME feel is the best of the Paramount Park offerings.

Add to the fact that of the 12 of so SF parks I've been to, only one rivals the customer service and overall quality of rides.. that being SFGAm.

Plus, if we were THAT spoiled, they woulda gotten Acro up and running much quicker after being struck by lightning (rotation still doesn't work), and Deja Vu up and running at all (last of the 3 that's STILL down).

Hehe, Brian, you're just looking for some fantastic new Intamin product to show up at SFoG...(as have I for the past several years, LOL). Atlanta is a fantastic SF park, but it's not EVER going to rival GAdv in terms of $ or markets....unless NYC suddenly disappeared off the map...

If SFI *insisted* on building KK, then GAdv IS the right park to do it in...it has serious competition in Dorney, it has HUGE markets, and the potential to increase its attendance and profitability in VAST amounts...(small percentage increases at GAdv mean BIG big $)...;)

As far as those advocating "sharing the wealth", capitalism and communism just don't mix....

See, Gator gets it. :)

I just wish I could be as succinct with my rants.

*** Edited 11/26/2004 9:18:37 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

---

Lord Gonchar said:
In terms of flat out potential draw why would you stick any major ride anywhere but SFGAdv...I think it's about which park has the most potential to draw.

---

You're absolutely, 100% correct. Everyone else: pay attention to his post; he gets it. To suggest that Kinda Ka would be successful or wise at a park like SFAW or SFA is laughable at best.

---

If you think in terms of potential market and competition, the park that (in my eyes) truly gets spoiled is SFOG.

---

SFoG gets spoiled because it's required to. Six Flags does not have complete ownership of SFoG; it's owned by investors. Contractual arrangements specify that Six Flags must reinvest a specified percentage of the park's gross (I believe it's 6%). You're correct that SFoG has seen more new additions than other Six Flags parks in similar markets with similar attendance numbers. However, those new additions aren't going to stop coming because they can't.

-Nate *** Edited 11/26/2004 9:13:08 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

Oh God!

Nate & Gonch on the same page!?

The world will tremble. Children will cry. Life as we know it is over! ;)

I didn't know that about SFOG. In hindsight it all makes sense now.

You people don't get it! just b/c sfgadv is in a huge metropolitan area does not mean that it will help the park in the long run.

This in: SixflagsMM is around LA and another huge metropolitan area how is it doing?

Sure in 05 the parks going to be a success, but not long term necessarily. Poor maitenance and service will harm the park so people wont come back after their 05 visit. And I'm saying there is a possibility of another MM.

Locating KA at sfgadv will either harm the company or help the company a lot.

I agree adding Ka at sfgadv could be the best potential move by the company but it could also be the worst as well. *** Edited 11/26/2004 10:40:09 PM UTC by GIGAFORCE01***

So what's your point?

Is it that nothing will truly help SF in the long run or that SFGAdv is not necessarily the best choice of park to place such a ride?

Because I've having a hard time finding any logic that relates to a conclusion of any kind in that post, Gigaforce01.

Edit - D'oh, you added the last line while I replied.

*** Edited 11/26/2004 10:42:31 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

SFGAM is around another huge metropotian area, and how is it doing?

The point is just b/c you are in a huge metropolitan area does not mean that the park is going to be a huge success like the sfmm example. The park can be near huge cities add huge rides but not have enough maintenance for what they own. Hum sounds like MM and maybe sfgadv.

*** Edited 11/26/2004 10:48:38 PM UTC by GIGAFORCE01***

Still not seeing logic or conclusion.

No one said it will be a success, that it would turn around the park or that this will fix SF forever. No one...anywhere in this thread...said or implied that.

The debate is whether the choice of park is a good one. I'm assuming that's what you're arguing against (since it's the only argument in the thread) - so what park would you have put it at?

My point is if I were SF I would take park quality( park maintenance, staff, overall experience not just rides) over where it is located. I would feel that a park with good quality would do better than a park with just a good location and has problems as it is already. What happened when they just added coasters to MM. It was near a big city.

The best thing SF could do is make gadv a good quality park. Then if they added Ka that would be a huge long term hit.

I think SF should of waited a year and fixed gadv or choosen a different park.

The SFGadv mangement is very intelligent and would not accept a ride from coporate if they had yearly problems. Yes, corporate reigns supreme but there is still ways they can stall the addition.

GIGA, you're not getting it on a lot of different levels.

---

GIGAFORCE01 said:
SF...would take park quality...over where it is located. I would feel that a park with good quality would do better than a park with just a good location and has problems as it is already. What happened when they just added coasters to MM. It was near a big city.

---

While its true that SFI needs to work on the quality of their parks, you can have the best quality customer service in the world, but when you start marketing a new product if you're located in Antartica and marketing it to people there, you're not going to be a sucess. Put the product out in the megalopolis of NYC/D.C./Philly/Baltimore/Boston/etc., and you're gonna make some ca$h.

Not only do you need to have Quality Customer Service, you also have to make smart business decisions, and this is actually SFI doing something right. This kind of ride would simply not work at all parks. End of Story.

---

The best thing SF could do is make gadv a good quality park. Then if they added Ka that would be a huge long term hit.

---

You're right there. But, then, nobody here is disputing that SF needs to work on over all customer service. By looking @ your track file, you've either A) not been to SFGAdv or B) not listed any coasters from there in your track record. Are you sure SFGAdv isn't a 'quality' park?

---

I think SF should of waited a year and fixed gadv or choosen a different park.

---

That statement started to make sense, till you said the part about sending it to another park. What other park would you have sent a 20+ million dollar ride? SFGAdv is the largest regional theme park. They have the room. The obviously have the business. SFGAm may have had the room, but they need a waterpark first most definitly. SFMM probably dosen't have the budget right now, and they already have a 400 footer. What other park would you have sent it to?

SFGAdv was not a suprise for this. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to see SFGAdv be the park that ends up with more coasters than SFMM. I'd personally like to see SFI get their act together and get all parks up to standard, but as of now, if they're gonna go all out and break the height/speed record, SFGAdv is probably the only choice that makes any kinda sense.

When you're in college and start taking economics/business classes, it will probably make a bit more sense to you. *** Edited 11/27/2004 4:43:58 AM UTC by TeknoScorpion***

SFGAm will NEVER get a coaster anywhere near as tall as TDD or KK. While anything is possible, the Villge of Gurnee and/or the FAA will probably not allow anything taller than the 285' Sky Trek Tower.

That being said, some type of Intamin launcher with a top-hat like Xcellerator and inversions like Storm RUnner would seem much more likely.

Mike